# Winning Rate of Good Tournament Players

• Bronze
Joined: 04.05.2007
In one of the startegy articles (I don't remember which one), it states that a good tournament player wins \$5 for every \$1 buy-in on average.

I don't see how that can be possible, especially on FullTilt.

Let's take the 5 + .5 tournaments for example.

In the 5 + .5 9hd SnG, the 1st place is awarded about 20 dollars. Same with the 5 + .5 6hd. So if we neglect the .5 we pay for each tournament (which I doubt you can on a long enough timeline), we would be winning four times our buy-in, meaning \$4 for every \$1 if WE HAD WON EVERY TOURNAMENT.

Concludingly, that would mean: if I was winning EVERY tournament I play on that limit, I still would not be considered a good player, since I can't even win \$5 for every \$1.

How's that possible on single-table SnGs?

And, second question: what is actually a realistic winning ratio for a single-table tournament player?
• 8 replies
• Bronze
Joined: 29.10.2006
5\$ profit for every 1\$ invested sounds ridiculous.

When talking about SNG's a ROI of 30%+ is possible for the very good players at the lower limits. As you move up I would say that keeping a stable ROI of 15%+ is very good. Still you shouldn't focus that much on your ROI at first, but solely on your decisions, and over time the ROI should be rising as well.

Best regards,
Mugge
• Bronze
Joined: 03.10.2007
44% is the absolute maximum (this was calculated somewhere, i forget where) in the longrun. therefore you should aim for an ROI of something like 30%+ for the low limits.
• Bronze
Joined: 14.11.2007
Originally posted by nzmklc
In one of the startegy articles (I don't remember which one), it states that a good tournament player wins \$5 for every \$1 buy-in on average.
It was mentioned in HOH V1 but it was for MTT's!
• Bronze
Joined: 05.09.2007
Originally posted by bresha
Originally posted by nzmklc
In one of the startegy articles (I don't remember which one), it states that a good tournament player wins \$5 for every \$1 buy-in on average.
It was mentioned in HOH V1 but it was for MTT's!
O_o

MTTs are even swingier than SnGs! This can't be right. Please tell me this isn't right!
• Bronze
Joined: 03.10.2007
even if it's in the book (which i've read thoroughly, although only once), it's not right.
• Bronze
Joined: 31.07.2007
That means you would have a 500% ROI, impossible in SNG's and the only people which have done this in MTT's are people who have had a massive win over a small sample size.
• Black
Joined: 10.09.2007
Jerry Yang has an ROI of like 80000%
• Bronze
Joined: 25.10.2006
Originally posted by chenny8888
even if it's in the book (which i've read thoroughly, although only once), it's not right.
I read the book about 18 months ago and have a vague recollection that Harrington gave an expert about a 3:1 overlay in a tournament such as the WSOP main event due to the large number of online-qualifiers whom have very little live experience.

I suppose a good player in a lowish-level rebuy MTT might approach something like 3:1 but who knows for sure.

5:1 in a SNG corresponds to taking 1st every time.