[NL20-NL50] NL20 SH 22 4bet pot

    • SPeedFANat1c
      SPeedFANat1c
      Gold
      Joined: 04.01.2009 Posts: 5,059
      Grabbed by Holdem Manager
      NL Holdem $0.20(BB) Replayer
      SB ($19.60)
      BB ($20.30)
      Hero ($20)

      Dealt to Hero 2:diamond: 2:spade:

      Hero raises to $0.60, fold, BB raises to $2.20, Hero raises to $6.10, BB calls $3.90

      FLOP ($12.30) 6:diamond: Q:spade: 7:diamond:

      BB checks, Hero checks

      TURN ($12.30) 6:diamond: Q:spade: 7:diamond: T:heart:

      BB bets $5.55, Hero folds

      BB wins $11.69




      On flop I can push or fold. But 88+ are never folding there I think, don't know what range I could give him, but probably very strong.
  • 9 replies
    • iiikrrr
      iiikrrr
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.07.2010 Posts: 524
      I think your 4betsizing is too big, 4betting to ~4.5$ does the trick imo. Are you btw 4bet/calling or folding?

      Calling the 3b pre wouldn't be good since this is 3handed so his 3betting range against steal is wider than usually so we don't necessarily get enough action when hitting the set. I would be folding or 4b to4.5/f pre depending on game flow.

      As played I wouldn't either cbet the flop, and just checkbehind and fold to his turn bet. After calling the big 4b OOP I'd put him on a very strong range like big pocket pairs. I think he would ship AK pre.
    • SPeedFANat1c
      SPeedFANat1c
      Gold
      Joined: 04.01.2009 Posts: 5,059
      Are you btw 4bet/calling or folding?


      hard to say. In game he was 3beting me a lot, so I decided I need to 4bet. Once he folded to 4bet. Now he might have choosen a better hand and push. With my 22 at best I get a coinfilp, but I might also be against better PP easily since I have the lowest one. I need around 35% equity to be breakeven.

      if I put him on PP, Axs + I only have 31% equiety, so this should be a 4bet/fold.

      I read that 2.5x for a 4bet is good, so that means I should raise to 5.5
    • iiikrrr
      iiikrrr
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.07.2010 Posts: 524
      I read that 2.5x for a 4bet is good, so that means I should raise to 5.5
      Okey, I personally usually 4bet to just 22-27bb depending on his 3betsizing since if he jams he does jam over our 25bb 4b as well as he would to our 30bb+ 4b, this just makes bluffs cheaper. I don't think that you should raise so big when bluffing since imho there is almost as much FE when 4betting to ~4.8 as to ~6. And when you make so big 4b you basically have to call the 5bet.


      equity win tie pots won pots tied
      Hand 0: 35.504% 35.21% 00.29% 224290476 1863336.00 { 22 }
      Hand 1: 64.496% 64.20% 00.29% 408959940 1863336.00 { TT+, AQs+, AQo+ }
    • SPeedFANat1c
      SPeedFANat1c
      Gold
      Joined: 04.01.2009 Posts: 5,059
      ok, but then I have to 4bet small with AK, QQ+ also, because they migth read that when I 4bet small I am bluffing
    • iiikrrr
      iiikrrr
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.07.2010 Posts: 524
      Originally posted by SPeedFANat1c
      ok, but then I have to 4bet small with AK, QQ+ also, because they migth read that when I 4bet small I am bluffing
      Yeah exactly. :) I don't think that you'd be losing value by 4betting to 22-27bbs with monsters too since there aren't too many players who call 4bets, at least the regs fold or shove most of the time. But if you know that the opponent is bad and going to call you should be ofc 4betting bigger, especially if you're OOP. I personally 4bet bigger OOP than IP.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello SPeedFANat1c,

      Well, I'd really ask you why do you want to bluff out a opponent who seems to be a huge station postflop? I don't like ever 4betting against them. At the best I'd just take the implied odds which gives me for 3bet pot ~13:1 for set mining than 4bet there. 4betting is overplayed, doubt you are even ever making him to fold here (also fold to 4bet).

      Best Regards.
    • SPeedFANat1c
      SPeedFANat1c
      Gold
      Joined: 04.01.2009 Posts: 5,059
      Well, I'd really ask you why do you want to bluff out a opponent who seems to be a huge station postflop?


      I somehow am ussed that opponensts have huge 3bet in the blinds, so I believe that it will not be profitable to set mine becasue they simply often will not have a hand. But this player has low 3bet value in BB, so I aggre - he might catch some top pair on Axx or Kxx and stack off.

      3bet pot ~13:1


      I am used to 20:1 but of course I will rarely have this in \3bet pots. So 13:1 is ok. Is this the worst odds I can still call in 3bet pot, or I could call even if I would have worse? Of course it also depends on how loose is the opponent, some some guideines would be good :)
    • Kaitz20
      Kaitz20
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      I think calling 3-bet would likely be the best play. You can force your positional advantage, but then take random hand, or hand that has blockers (like Ax), not 22, which has likely not his 3-betting range (unless he 3-bets with A2s or 22)

      You´re not calling only for set value, but also to float or raise on good boards and put pressure his wide 3-bet range.

      Guidelines: if they check on drawy board, they would more often going to c/f, so you can take their stab. You can attack low coordinated boards or consider floating on dry boards. Just don´t overdue it, since he would fight back at some point.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      I somehow am ussed that opponensts have huge 3bet in the blinds, so I believe that it will not be profitable to set mine becasue they simply often will not have a hand. But this player has low 3bet value in BB, so I aggre - he might catch some top pair on Axx or Kxx and stack off.

      That's totally true but just take a look at the opponent. :D He seems to be huge station who is most likely paying us with anything he hits.

      I am used to 20:1 but of course I will rarely have this in \3bet pots. So 13:1 is ok. Is this the worst odds I can still call in 3bet pot, or I could call even if I would have worse? Of course it also depends on how loose is the opponent, some some guideines would be good

      Standard 2bet pots = Call20 rule, 3bet pots we can use Call15 rule, so practically if you are more experienced and you know the opponent you could even consider lowering it a bit.