did he have AA or only 77 or A7?

    • raven39
      raven39
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.08.2011 Posts: 7
      I must be thick...I just don't get how to get a hand evaluated properly so....

      10/20 Tourney Texas Hold'em Game Table (NL) (MTT Tournament #64186683) - Sun Oct 16 12:53:08 EDT 2011.
      Table 3346296 (Real Money) -- Seat 10 is the button.
      Total number of players : 8/10.
      4th hand in the tournament.
      Seat 1: Villain(12420), Seat 2: Hero (3000), Seat 3: (2780), Seat 4: (2970), Seat 5: (2960), Seat 8: (2900), Seat 9: (2970), Seat 10: (2970).
      Seat 1 posts small blind (10), Hero posts big blind (20).
      Dealt to Hero [ Kh, Kd ]
      3 calls (20), 4 folds, 5 folds, 6 calls (20), 7 folds, 8 folds, 1 SB (Villain) calls (10), 2 (Hero) raises 60 to 80, 3 calls (60), 8 calls (60), 1 calls (60).
      Pot $320
      ** Dealing Flop ** : [ 3c, Kc, Ac ]
      1 checks, 2 (Hero)bets (240), 3 folds, 8 folds, 1 calls (240).
      Pot $800
      ** Dealing Turn ** : [ 6s ]
      1 checks, 2 (Hero)bets (800), 1 calls (800),
      ** Dealing River ** : [ 7c ]
      1 bets (2400), 2 folds.
      ** Summary **
      Main Pot: 2400
      Board: [ 3c Kc Ac 6s 7c ]
      1 (Villain) balance 13700, bet 3520, collected 4800, net +1280
      2 (Hero) balance 1880, lost 1120 (folded)
      I placed him on AAA+ at the time, and it was too early in the tournament to be chucking it all in and losing if I was right, that’s why I folded. However, I now think he may only have had 77 or A7 in his hand instead and I should have gone all in against him. What do you think?
  • 4 replies
    • variancekiller
      variancekiller
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.09.2010 Posts: 896
      standard all-in now way to fold a set of kings here!
    • w4terman
      w4terman
      Silver
      Joined: 04.04.2011 Posts: 757
      how you place him on AA or 77!! he did not had any of these...
      he cant shove with four clubs on the board while having a set
    • dogma18
      dogma18
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.12.2009 Posts: 340
      I would make raise preflop a lot bigger, probably to 140, 160 or something.

      Continuation bet on flop should be a bit bigger too. When he calls i might check back turn for pot control then if he overshoves river you know he has it
    • UTGDog
      UTGDog
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.11.2011 Posts: 72
      I would make raise preflop a lot bigger, probably to 140, 160 or something.

      Continuation bet on flop should be a bit bigger too. When he calls i might check back turn for pot control then if he overshoves river you know he has it


      Definitely I would raise preflop much higher than the standard 3BB raise. Typically, rule of thumb should be a 3BB raise + 1 BB for every player that limped into the pot. If you feel the table is full of loose callers, maybe bump it up to something that would allow for maybe one or two callers only. By making such a raise, you can effectively narrow their hand range to something that makes sense. There is no way to know if he had AA or 77, but he certainly didnt have AA since he would have raised before you...also 77 just doesnt make sense to put him on as you have no idea what he could have been holding.

      The bet on the flop was fine, 2/3 to 3/4 pot bet here is a good bet size to further help give you information on his hand range. With his check/call on the flop youc an deduce that he either has a weak A or is holding a spade and is looking to catch a flush. My guess is that he was likely holding a weak offsuited A whose kicker is a club.

      On the turn you could progress one of two ways. You could bet the turn and re-evaluate on the river, or check behind and re-evaluate on the river. Personally, I prefer the latter suggestion for a multitude of reasons.

      Since we can already assume that his weakest possible holding is a flush draw and his strongest being an already flopped flush, your set is simply too vulnerable in this situation since your preflop/post flop play hasn't given you a good indication of what range of hands he could be holding. Furthermore, betting the turn and being called still does not give you information simply because it is far too early in the tournament for you to have any information about your opponent yet and what types of hands he is capable of playing or how he will play them. Now you were faced with a tough decision on the river when a scare card fell after such a large investment, and you still didn't gain any information about your opponent.

      By checking behind, now you have kept the pot small enough to make a sufficient call if he bets a small amount on the river and you win with the best hand, or gain some cheap information. Also, if a club hits you can release your set with minimal damage to your stack and live to fight another day. If a club misses you now have played you hand as if you were on a flush draw of your own (continuation bet on the flop, check missed draw on the turn), and allow your opponent to make a bluff attempt on the river to which you can gladly call if you feel he is bluffing. This will also help you later on since people will notice how you played the hand and make them more cautious when thinking of bluffing you. I always invite a good table image :D .

      I think with the texture of the board and the vulnerability of your made hand, cautious play is always preferred here. Since all preflop players called ur raise before the flop, there is too high a possibility that someone may have outflopped you there. With that in mind, the situation dictates that you proceed with extreme caution.