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Downswings, Bad Beats, suck outs...

    • Alcrowley31
      Alcrowley31
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.08.2011 Posts: 10
      Why do we have Downswings, bad beats and suck-outs when playing online?..after playing thousands of hands on various sites i have concluded they are rigged, they want u to 'Tilt' otherwise no big pots no rake for them, a tight table is no good for them as not many big pots or action, so what do they do?...give u downswings bad beats and suck-outs, its to make u 'tilt'..today for eg i was winning everything, i went all in three times with 74o and won all of them lol...won two tourney and cleaned up in the cash rooms...then i logged off then came back..then surprise surprise a total opposite, nothing..lucky for me i never tilt and as soon as suspect a downswing etc..i log off and go the gym..that has saved me a lot of money over the past few yrs..just thought i would get other peoples thoughts on this crazy expected ride.

      Do live players experience the same?
  • 23 replies
    • TonyRice
      TonyRice
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.01.2010 Posts: 3,373
      The reason we experience downswings and bad beats isnt to make us tilt, its variance, even when you get your money in as a strong favourite there are always going to be times when people manage to hit their 1 out by the river, this isnt just to make you tilt and because the site is rigged its because mathmatically you are never going to win you 70/80/90% favourite hands 100% of the time see how its not making sense already?


      If you are getting all in with 74o (i assume pre flop because its not unusual to win with it if you were getting it in with 74o on 774 board for example) then you are experiencing the good side of variance atm but it will soon strike against you it does against every player good or bad there are ways to reduce it but never to avoid it completely
    • Akcus
      Akcus
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.12.2009 Posts: 156
      What are some good ways to reduce it? I know when i hit my downswings, 2-3x a month ><, i've tried so many things. I've tried reducing max tables played, moving down from 18max to 9max/6max to play against individual players more. I've tried lowering the limits too.. People say volume volume volume is key to the SNG grind, some also say you can play through the downswing and it will end and you can continue your grind.

      But the problem is, When you play your first 20-30 SNGs and start on a downswing where you lose AA/KK/QQ to bad beats every time, how do you continue to grind and continue to put in volume without going broke?

      I'm very relaxed and because i fully understand the variance and inevitability of a downswing i am free from tilt so i know i can continue making the right decisions, but from my experience over the last couple months if i ever continue playing i just continue to get those bad beats and cannot play through it.

      Impossible to put in the volume when im forced to stop playing thanks to a downswing, which seems to last for a day or two no matter how much i play.

      Stop after 30 SNGs because everything gets beat, instead of 60-100 for the day, then 1-2 days break otherwise the downswing always continues, = hundreds of SNGs lost = destroying variance lol.
    • zobupasts
      zobupasts
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.04.2009 Posts: 310
      If you never tilt than what do you call going allin with 74o 3x?

      Originally posted by Alcrowley31
      ..after playing thousands of hands on various sites i have concluded they are rigged
      Yes, they are rigged.

      /thread
    • Alcrowley31
      Alcrowley31
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.08.2011 Posts: 10
      i was calling all-in with those hands cos i was picked for good variance that day and i could not lose no matter what i had, i tried them all-in as a way to prove to myself they were rigged for me that day.
    • fuzzyfish
      fuzzyfish
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.01.2010 Posts: 862
      Yes, but,

      why do we have downswings?

      WHY!?
    • fuzzyfish
      fuzzyfish
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.01.2010 Posts: 862
      • 18.10.2011, 09:57
      • This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by fuzzyfish: 18.10.2011 09:58.
      This is a very long reply from the moderator, thus I suspect he's hiding something from us.
    • Castle93
      Castle93
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.06.2011 Posts: 1,458
      Are you for real :f_confused: online poker obviously isn't rigged they test sites over millions of hands and if your getting it in with bad hands and complaining about downswings well....
    • gadget51
      gadget51
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.06.2008 Posts: 5,622
      Oh no not another one of those. There should be a special section for these whiney threads...yawn. Ok mods how many of these threads are there? Can't we just have a link to all the other threads like this? That way all the losers can have a good old whinge to each other, they'll be happy and we'll be happy.
      And yes I know I don't have to read them.

      Rant over, sry all. GL a the tables.
    • w34z3l
      w34z3l
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 03.08.2009 Posts: 13,332
      • 18.10.2011, 11:05
      • This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by w34z3l: 18.10.2011 11:06.
      Originally posted by fuzzyfish
      This is a very long reply from the moderator, thus I suspect he's hiding something from us.
      +1

      But seriously, if you want to reduce variance try PLO8. Either that or stop shoving 74o.
    • Alcrowley31
      Alcrowley31
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.08.2011 Posts: 10
      For one i do not lose, i am profitable at the tables in SNG and cash tables, and correctly you state u do not need to read this thread and yet u still do and even take the time to comment on them...Yawn..in every forum in the world on every subject there someone like urself who always comes to threads he claims does not want to read and always leaves comments lol...Are you bored today whilst on your Downswing?
    • GunnarPB
      GunnarPB
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.03.2011 Posts: 28
      • 18.10.2011, 14:49
      • This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by GunnarPB: 18.10.2011 14:51.
      you have downswings cuz poker is a game where variance plays a big role which is actually something good. If poker was an entirely skill game (zero variance) than you would not have bad players playing for money because they would know they don't stand a chance against the good players. You don't see a beginner betting money in a chess match against a GM, because he knows he does not stand a chance against him. Not rly hard to understand if you have more than 3 neurons. Other factors come in to play too that helps poker being such a profitable game. Some investor sayings say that big profit comes with big risks, you just need to learn to manage the risks and there's no risk free investment there's always a risk. Poker is nothing more than an investment so these rules apply to it too

      Btw not every downswing happens because of variance you can just be playing bad, this happens with any kind of athlete or player so why poker would be different?
    • TonyRice
      TonyRice
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.01.2010 Posts: 3,373
      Originally posted by fuzzyfish
      This is a very long reply from the moderator, thus I suspect he's hiding something from us.
      Me? hiding something?

      Ok ok poker is rigged, in favour of people who study hard and play well :coolface:
    • gadget51
      gadget51
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.06.2008 Posts: 5,622
      • 24.10.2011, 09:10
      • This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by gadget51: 24.10.2011 09:10.
      Mod was trying to be constructive. I don't have downswings I've been a winner from zero money and no deposits for 4 years. Please don't jump to conclusions about me without any info.
      And yes I am bored...with these threads. Hope your bankroll stays alive. 'Nuff from me, bye.
    • fuzzyfish
      fuzzyfish
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.01.2010 Posts: 862
      Originally posted by gadget51
      Hope your bankroll stays alive. 'Nuff from me, bye.
      No need for tears. His bankroll will live on as a part of somebody elses bigger bankroll. And in the end all bankrolls shall become one in the godly bankroll belonging to owners of the card room. So don't worry, bucks lost in tables don't vanish for good, they just go to a better place.
    • NightFrostaSS
      NightFrostaSS
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.10.2008 Posts: 5,255
      Originally posted by fuzzyfish
      Originally posted by gadget51
      Hope your bankroll stays alive. 'Nuff from me, bye.
      No need for tears. His bankroll will live on as a part of somebody elses bigger bankroll. And in the end all bankrolls shall become one in the godly bankroll belonging to owners of the card room. So don't worry, bucks lost in tables don't vanish for good, they just go to a better place.
      Now that's deep
    • z1pz0r
      z1pz0r
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.08.2009 Posts: 981
      Originally posted by fuzzyfish
      don't worry, bucks lost in tables don't vanish for good, they just go to a better place.
      :heart:
    • EasyOnEAS
      EasyOnEAS
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.08.2010 Posts: 59
      Originally posted by Castle93
      Are you for real :f_confused: online poker obviously isn't rigged they test sites over millions of hands and if your getting it in with bad hands and complaining about downswings well....
      Acutally, those studies dont tell us that its not rigged. I dont why so many seem to think that.

      If a player is good, it is better for a pokersite to let him run below EV then above. He is already taking money out of the games by being a winner, the less he take the better for the pokereconomy. And of course, if a losing player can be more lucky, he wont go broke so fast.

      When those who make HHs study, they study the cards that came, not the people who gets them. So these studies tell us that the cards that came look like a random distribution of cards.

      These kinds of study doesnt tell us if bad players are more lucky then good players for example. They just tell us what the "overall" is like.

      And when studying one individual HHs that will only tell how that individual were doing. If the bad player were running above EV but within variance, then that doesnt tell us anything else.

      It is impossible to know if bad players are running better than good players from these studies. Meaning that they can rig it in favor of the bad and disfavor of the good to even the field, and these studies doesnt detect that.
    • EasyOnEAS
      EasyOnEAS
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.08.2010 Posts: 59
      [quote][i]Originally posted by Alcrowley31then i logged off then came back..then surprise surprise a total opposite, nothing..[/quote]I have experienced just the same thing. It does feel like something happened to your account, am I right?

      Originally posted by AkcusStop after 30 SNGs because everything gets beat, instead of 60-100 for the day, then 1-2 days break otherwise the downswing always continues, = hundreds of SNGs lost = destroying variance lol.
      When you actually feel you have to wait 1-2 days to plays otherwise dowswing continues, you know the games arent random. Chanses of you getting that feeling with a random deal is very slim, just think about it. I mean, does it feel natural to you?

      Just read my post above, there is nothing that would prevent a pokersite to rig the games when they can make much more money by doing it. This site wants to teach you that everything you see is variance. They have interest in making you keep playing through them. Nobody has proved that Online Poker is rigged, but that doesnt mean it can be. Just play the game and judge for yourself.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koNqF30U1hc

      I didnt make this video, the creator found the guy claiming to be software engineer who has worked for Pokerstars. Of course, we dont know it thats true. Anyway, what he wrote got cencored, so I assume someone did feel threatened afterall.

      Read the description. I dont know about you, but to me his experiences seemed oddly familiar. And trust me, on various forums there are dozens who have had similar experiences, just like there are on this forum.
    • hamid88
      hamid88
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.05.2010 Posts: 19
      ^Wow....Very interesting. Definitely worth the watch.

      Shame we won't ever find out if that's actually true but the fact it was censored does show that somethings definitely fishy.
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