My sh*t work ethic...what's to be done?

    • deezer79
      deezer79
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      Joined: 13.06.2011 Posts: 191
      Hello all!! Just saw a thread saying some dude plays over at least 5k hands a day and has me thinking. How many hands do you play on an average day? I play so casually and it would probably help me if I had a goal of the amount of hands I should play a day. Usually I mix 6 handed SnGs and 6-max NL10, consider myself a winning player but not really building a roll.

      Example of this is an hour of play tonight:

      Played 2 6-max cash games and lost a buy in almost immediately. Got a limper in early position and I decide to isolate with 8-6 of diamonds. Raised to 35c and opponent called. Flop came 3-6-9 with 2 diamonds; pot sized donk bet from villain and I raised to $1.70. Turn was a black 5 and villain bet $4 - at this point I'm putting him on an overpair (due to limp and flop play am thinking 10s) and I like my chances with how many outs I have, can't call so I shove. He calls and shows J-10 of diamonds...diamond hits the river. Can't be too mad (weird play from him IMO but he wasn't that much of a dog) :( . Played a little more and won some but didn't cover this lost buy-in.

      Played 2 6-handed SnGs; bust out of one and came first in the other.

      This got me even and I didn't much feel like playing more. May play a bit later on but there's no fire in me. For all those building a steady BR, moving up and making a real go of this...how many hands do you average a day? How hard should I be grinding if I want to be more of a casual player?
  • 23 replies
    • SryImNoob
      SryImNoob
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      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 4,678
      Strange question deezer79, in fact i dont think there 's a quota of hands to play/day. I mean you play the number of table you are confortable with and play your A-game, when u lose concentration take a break and come back later.

      I dont think 68s is a good hand to isolate a fish ip and ur sizing seem a little small but as play I think you could have fold the turn, your flush isnt the best and you have middle pair.

      Anyway if you are confortable playing 2 table nl10 and you feel like you are taking the right decision continue this way, there is no need to play more hand (meaning more table (meaning less concentration(meaning smaller winrate(meaning lost of interest in the game)))) to considere yourself as a grinder. You play your game and they play there game.

      Personnaly i play 4-6table nl10 sh x 2 session of 30minutes for cg
      and i play 4table sng 2$ turbo/hyper turbo x 4 session.

      Hope this help a little bit!
    • deezer79
      deezer79
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      Joined: 13.06.2011 Posts: 191
      Thanks Noob! Was just wondering how much people play - perhaps hours per day would be a better way to judge than the number of hands. Certainly I am comfortable with the stakes that I am playing and usually I will play 4 tables at a time (be they cash or SnG) but I need to be doing more volume if I'm going to make any real profit. Just wanted an idea of how much people here are playing.

      I made the play because I feel that people who limp under the button can be taken advantage of and suited one gappers are good hands to do that with. I wanted to play the hand and it's my opinion that if a hand is worth playing, it's worth raising. What am I going to do? Limp too and let the blinds in? I flop middle pair and a flush draw and I am more than happy to get it in there. Donking the turn that way confused me and with 2nd pair, a flush and str8 draw, I'm going nowhere...would you consider that bad play? One thing that threw me off is his flatting my 3 bet on the flop; why do that and then bomb the turn with his draw (where I assume he thought he was still a 5-1 dog, unless he thought his pair draws were good)? If he wants to put it in then 4 bet the flop while he has more equity in the pot than bombing the turn when he missed. I thought I played the hand well - I lost it tho, so what do I know? Unknowingly, I did put it in as the favorite.

      Seems like you put a lot more time in than I :-).
    • IngridN
      IngridN
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      Joined: 02.03.2011 Posts: 12,162
      Thank you SryImNoob for popping by and helping out here :heart:
    • RasTweet
      RasTweet
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      Joined: 26.12.2009 Posts: 4,553
      depends on how many tables you play, and if it's 6max, FR, HU...

      I used to play 1K hands a day. Playing FR 6 tabling.
      Nowadays I'm a bit more series about it and play 4 tables FR. Play about 600-700 hands a day. Sometimes I play 800-1000 hands. It depends though. If I can focus very long I play more hands. If I lost my focus I play less hands.

      Regards
      RasTweet
    • Maniatrix
      Maniatrix
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.11.2008 Posts: 674
      How hard should I be grinding if I want to be more of a casual player?


      Should not.. Grinding and casual does not belong together in the same sentence.
    • deezer79
      deezer79
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.06.2011 Posts: 191
      Sorry man, just re-read that...meant to say "if I want to be more than a casual player". Me don't form the word groups so good.
    • purplefizz
      purplefizz
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      Joined: 12.03.2008 Posts: 4,508
      hi guys,

      moved your thread where it belongs. :)

      interesting question. i think i heard before (between coach and aspiring pro) is that if you were serious about grinding you should have at least 40k hands/month. for cash games i think this is reasonable.

      we are not pros of course and we arent expected to be able to do that right away. however, you can build your endurance for this and can start setting volume goals for yourself. (for example: 20k hands this month, 30k next month, etc.)

      in my opinion, volume is part of the recipe in success at poker :) .

      maybe other members can contribute their own opinions here.


      smiles,
      wendy
    • conall88
      conall88
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2009 Posts: 1,715
      if you want to be more than a casual player, think less about playing x amount of poker, and more about learning everything possible.

      create an action plan. complete it , then make another. rinse and repeat.
    • surfwell1818
      surfwell1818
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.11.2009 Posts: 137
      My personal work ethic for poker comes behind my full time job/wife and son and home commitments.It's hard to find the time to grind 1000's of hands as much as I would like to. The later into the night I play the more tired I am for tomorrows session(after a full day of work also).This month I played 4000 hands full ring NL 1c/2c...So next month Im aiming for 5000 hands, and a better rate/100 hands.Im am new to NL after years of playing FL,,, boy was that a waste of my time and snail pace BR growth..
    • datsmahname
      datsmahname
      Global
      Joined: 23.11.2009 Posts: 1,366
      There are lots of things you can consider... Try figuring out whats realistic for you in 1 hr of play. Then decide on a couple times a week where you're going to play / study. Planing ahead, and if the # of hands you end up playing is realistic based on your time commitment then you're work ethic might not be as bad as you first thought.

      Personally I'm not much of a grinder. 20k hands in a month would be:f_thumbsup: for me. I usually play around 150 hands an hour and study often by finding other people to chat poker with.
    • deezer79
      deezer79
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      Joined: 13.06.2011 Posts: 191
      Hands per hour is a hard thing for me to judge. Having a bitch of a time trying to get Elephant or Pokertracker to work, nothing but error messages for me. That's something I'd really like to get on top of; creating graphs, seeing my progress and having an accurate idea of how much I am playing.

      Having a little day of SnGs today and briefly went into CGs. Doing well (cashed 4 out of 6 and won a BI NL10) and will probably play some more. Very casual today :-).

      Wendy's suggestion of 20k hands this month sounds great to me but will have to guestimate per hour rather than per hand. Probably about 3 hours per day would easily cover it (as long as I multi-table).

      Study is something I'd like some suggestions on. What do you study? I tend to play around on the forums here, watch a lot on TV and that's about it. Haven't read a poker book in quite a while. Sadly as I can't photo any ID to this site I can't access any of the coaching and tutorials. Would love to get into some of the videos you have here.
    • purplefizz
      purplefizz
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      Joined: 12.03.2008 Posts: 4,508
      probably being able to find an ID is going to be easier than trying to find anywhere else which will provide this much poker info for free. OR you can just not get your free $50 and deposit on any site right away using our links and voila! Strategy Points for you!

      You might be interested in this november promo (going on in 5 poker rooms) where you will be boosted to Gold status for the rest of the year, plus an extra $20 bucks.
      Go for Gold Promo

      in the meantime, why dont you enroll yourself in our Beginner's course? (the link is in my sig). you can join them even when you are still basic.

      yea maybe hands/month is a bit too advanced esp as you don't even have trackers yet. (you can ask for help at the software/elephant boards where the IT ninjas hang out). at the beginning, even being able to dedicate a set amount of time (eg something like 2 hours of play + 2 hours of study) and sticking to it is gonna be awesome for your game. also hands/month isnt really relevant for all games (like it wont work for SNG's where # of entered SNG's is more important of course, and FL has totally different reasonable numbers too like datsmahname says)

      i like what connal said: make some goals, complete, make new ones :)
    • deezer79
      deezer79
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      Joined: 13.06.2011 Posts: 191
      Sadly, I am already signed up to WSOP and Titan before I heard of you and I'm sure retroactive points are out of the question? Obviously I have ID it's just that I have no way to photo it so that you guys can verify. Not sure why it's me that you have to be so careful about, guess I have a young sounding nickname. Take it as a compliment Deez! Would love an extra $50 but also would be a hassle to build strategy points at another site...I would feel obligated to bankroll to that $50 in order not to risk the account.

      After a nice tourney cash this morning I currently have a total BR of $540 and feel ready to step up to NL20 and $10SnGs. New adventures ahead!

      Have been posting on the software boards to try and get help. Shout out to netsrak, who's trying his best to get this sorted. Looking forward to being able to analyze my game like a pro.

      I loved what conall said also; my goal is to play 3 hrs per day, get that dough and step up another level in stakes by the end of the month. Wish me luck!!
    • deezer79
      deezer79
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      Joined: 13.06.2011 Posts: 191
      Day one of the plan and already taking a bit of a reaming...time to re-think. Sucked out on every SnG for Titan and made about $30 profit at WSOP. 8 games in and am down. Probably just nervous about stepping up in stakes.
    • datsmahname
      datsmahname
      Global
      Joined: 23.11.2009 Posts: 1,366
      If you're nervous about stepping up in stakes there are a lot of possible explanations

      among the most commonly overlooked is the possibility that you haven't prepared yourself by studying the material you would need to know to play with confidence.
    • deezer79
      deezer79
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      Joined: 13.06.2011 Posts: 191
      What material is this?
    • datsmahname
      datsmahname
      Global
      Joined: 23.11.2009 Posts: 1,366
      http://www.pokerstrategy.com/strategy/

      The basic articles will all be available to you, and while some of it will seem obvious its going to be a solid foundation to work from. Theres plenty of material out there you can study.
    • deezer79
      deezer79
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      Joined: 13.06.2011 Posts: 191
      Thanks mate, you're a star. Will post my findings.
    • deezer79
      deezer79
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      Joined: 13.06.2011 Posts: 191
      Just checked this out and have gone through all the basic strategy on that link. Am well past the basic stuff. Still feel the need to study more and am def going to step down in stakes. Since going up it's been nothing but downfall. Suck outs a-plenty and not feeling good about how I'm playing. Mainly cos I'm not winning. Just not comfortable despite being well BR'd for these games.
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