[NL2-NL10] NL10 SH bottom set

    • JHTAN
      JHTAN
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.07.2010 Posts: 1,331
      Grabbed by Holdem Manager
      NL Holdem $0.10(BB) Merge
      Hero ($10.05)
      BB ($15.54)
      UTG ($8.51)
      UTG+1 ($10.43)
      CO ($10.37)
      BTN ($10.32)

      Dealt to Hero 4:diamond: 4:spade:

      fold, UTG+1 raises to $0.30, fold, fold, Hero calls $0.25, fold

      FLOP ($0.70) 6:diamond: 4:heart: J:spade:

      Hero checks, UTG+1 bets $0.30, Hero raises to $0.90, UTG+1 raises to $2, Hero calls $1.10

      TURN ($4.70) 6:diamond: 4:heart: J:spade: Q:heart:

      Hero checks, UTG+1 bets $3, Hero ?

      Hi,

      Villain is unknown.
      How do you play this hand?
      I think I should fold on the Flop because I don't think villain will raise with overpair and he is only raise with JJ or 66.


      thanks.
  • 12 replies
    • Meemawuk
      Meemawuk
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.05.2009 Posts: 758
      I don't know how you make this read? Which Stats suggest he will not raise with an overpair or even AJ/KJ/QJ on the dry board? Do you think he is c-betting top or middle set on this dry board in position so small and then 3-betting you with the effective nuts? surely if he is a thinking player (which you seem to think he his) he would flat in position after you raise the flop with a very strong hand to keep bluffs in your range forcing you to continue with the bluff on the turn?

      I think your flop raise also is too small. I'd make it at least $1.30. His raise looks like he'll be pretty happy to stack off, flop 3-bet fold seems like a weird line so I'd probably just get it in directly on the flop.


      As played
      The turn isn't a great card since QQ got there and an overcard to any Jx hand (except QJ) came in so I'd probably play check-call on the turn, and then donk shove any river for value.
    • JHTAN
      JHTAN
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.07.2010 Posts: 1,331
      Originally posted by Meemawuk
      I don't know how you make this read? Which Stats suggest he will not raise with an overpair or even AJ/KJ/QJ on the dry board? Do you think he is c-betting top or middle set on this dry board in position so small and then 3-betting you with the effective nuts? surely if he is a thinking player (which you seem to think he his) he would flat in position after you raise the flop with a very strong hand to keep bluffs in your range forcing you to continue with the bluff on the turn?

      I think your flop raise also is too small. I'd make it at least $1.30. His raise looks like he'll be pretty happy to stack off, flop 3-bet fold seems like a weird line so I'd probably just get it in directly on the flop.


      As played
      The turn isn't a great card since QQ got there and an overcard to any Jx hand (except QJ) came in so I'd probably play check-call on the turn, and then donk shove any river for value.
      Hi,

      As played, I think the best play here is just fold on the Flop. Yes, I think I should raise bigger on the Flop.
      Actually, the pot on the Flop is about $0.65(rake). So, I think it is normal to bet 1/2 pot. Since, he is unknown(I have only 2hands with him). So, I guess most players will only 3bet on this dry Flop with 2pairs or better because my c/r line looks very strong like 2pairs or better. I guess maybe it is better to c/c this dry Flop because if we take c/r line on dry Flop, good regs will easily fold TPTK or overpair. IMO, It is normal for him to 3bet for value instead of calling because he knows that we will not fold to his 3bet with this c/r line.

      thanks.
    • Meemawuk
      Meemawuk
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.05.2009 Posts: 758
      I don't agree. He might think you will check-raise 77-TT vs his small bet here to protect against overcard draws (which I see a lot at the SH tables on Stars). You're repping quite a narrow range most of which is only medium strength hands. Regardless of what his hand is I think he has played it strangely, this I why I am more inclined to think he is fishy and overplaying some medium strength hand so I would just get it in on the flop. If he has JJ/66 then he gets my stack. An unknown player has raised preflop and you're desperate to reduce his range to 6 combos of the effective nuts on the dry flop when he 3-bets so that you can fold bottom set. I don't think this is equitable. If guys werent constantly willing to stack off with overpairs, we wouldnt set mine.

      Also regarding the bet size, I suppose on such a dry board it might not be a mistake to raise so small since you arent really protecting against anything. I'm still inclined to bet bigger so that I can play for stacks vs overpair though. With your raise size, you'll find it difficult to get it all in by the river without making very large turn and river bets.
    • Echoes88
      Echoes88
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.09.2008 Posts: 1,665
      Well, I guess, against an unknown it's a nobrainer stackoff (r/broke) on the flop.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello JHTAN,

      Well, we are never thinking of folding here vs unknown. :D How can you put him on better sets here while not knowing him? I'd just get it in right on flop, there is no point to Call it anyways while even being OOP.

      Don't be result oriented.

      Best Regards.
    • JHTAN
      JHTAN
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.07.2010 Posts: 1,331
      Originally posted by veriz
      Hello JHTAN,

      Well, we are never thinking of folding here vs unknown. :D How can you put him on better sets here while not knowing him? I'd just get it in right on flop, there is no point to Call it anyways while even being OOP.

      Don't be result oriented.

      Best Regards.

      Hi veriz,

      I don't know the result because I just folded on Turn.
      How do you play this hand with set on this dry Flop?
      Do you think c/c Flop is better?
      I think good player will fold overpair if we c/r on this dry Flop because I think people usually c/r with 2pairs or better on dry Flop.

      thanks.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Do you think c/c Flop is better?

      Nah, Check/Call wont gain us maximum value. :) Check/Raise most likely as you did and then try to go broke. Don't take NL10 as all the players being very good. Even on higher limits you find a lot players who overplayed their TP/overpairs. :)
    • JHTAN
      JHTAN
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.07.2010 Posts: 1,331
      Originally posted by veriz
      Do you think c/c Flop is better?

      Nah, Check/Call wont gain us maximum value. :) Check/Raise most likely as you did and then try to go broke. Don't take NL10 as all the players being very good. Even on higher limits you find a lot players who overplayed their TP/overpairs. :)
      If we are preflop aggressor, how do we play with overpair on this dry Flop if Villain c/r?

      thanks.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by JHTAN
      Originally posted by veriz
      Do you think c/c Flop is better?

      Nah, Check/Call wont gain us maximum value. :) Check/Raise most likely as you did and then try to go broke. Don't take NL10 as all the players being very good. Even on higher limits you find a lot players who overplayed their TP/overpairs. :)
      If we are preflop aggressor, how do we play with overpair on this dry Flop if Villain c/r?

      thanks.
      Depends really against what kind of opponent are we against. If we are against unknown then I might even sometimes continue, against loose players we might also sometimes continue. There are different cases. Against passive ones of course it's a Bet/Fold rather than Bet/Broke, at the best just Bet/Call and reevaluate it on further streets.
    • JHTAN
      JHTAN
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.07.2010 Posts: 1,331
      Originally posted by veriz
      Originally posted by JHTAN
      Originally posted by veriz
      Do you think c/c Flop is better?

      Nah, Check/Call wont gain us maximum value. :) Check/Raise most likely as you did and then try to go broke. Don't take NL10 as all the players being very good. Even on higher limits you find a lot players who overplayed their TP/overpairs. :)
      If we are preflop aggressor, how do we play with overpair on this dry Flop if Villain c/r?

      thanks.
      Depends really against what kind of opponent are we against. If we are against unknown then I might even sometimes continue, against loose players we might also sometimes continue. There are different cases. Against passive ones of course it's a Bet/Fold rather than Bet/Broke, at the best just Bet/Call and reevaluate it on further streets.
      We are preflop aggressor and we have overpair on this dry Flop.
      Let say, we bet/call Flop, then most likely villain will continue to bet on Turn with his whole range ie bluffing or for value. Then, we fold on Turn? I mean if we bet/call Flop then to fold on Turn then I rather just fold on Flop.
      or you bet/call Flop then call down Turn and River? I mean Villain is completely unknown ie 2 hands only with villain.

      thanks.
    • w4terman
      w4terman
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.04.2011 Posts: 757
      i am really suprised with this hand!!

      this looks like a dream flop to me i will ship it on the flop and i am sure that i will be ahead like 90% of the times

      expecially vs unknows this is a /dance shoove
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      We are preflop aggressor and we have overpair on this dry Flop.Let say, we bet/call Flop, then most likely villain will continue to bet on Turn with his whole range ie bluffing or for value. Then, we fold on Turn? I mean if we bet/call Flop then to fold on Turn then I rather just fold on Flop.or you bet/call Flop then call down Turn and River? I mean Villain is completely unknown ie 2 hands only with villain.

      thanks.

      Well, for example would you lay it down to a min-raise? I mean with the given odds I would most likely still Bet/Fold, against something similar raise it would really be what kind of expectations I have the opponent. But usually on dry boards when they raising big then they are also representing a big hand, especially loose-passive guys.