Psychology of visual bet size.

    • SonicXT
      SonicXT
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.06.2007 Posts: 4,736
      A few weeks ago, I wanted to try something. For the sake of argument, we'll use the opponent pays no attention to your image and and is oblivious to your plays in previous hands.

      I was wondering, would a visual bet size have any influence on the probability of facing a fold or call.
      Suppose the pot is 37.67 $ (just to take a number) and you bet either 25, 26 $ or 23.80 $, both about the same.
      Visual representation of these bets :
      - 25 $ : Single 25 $ chip
      - 26 $ : A 25 $ chip and a 1 $ chip on top
      - 23.80 $ : Four 5 $ chips, three 1 $ chips, three 25c chips and a 5c chip.

      Which would be the most scary for an opponent.
      The first shows one expensive chip, the second shows a cheap chip on top of it and in a way might look less scary because the first isn't seen, the third bet shows a large stack of 11 chips ...
      Would that have any influence against some players ?

      Just a thought, I like to think about these little, crazy stuff once in a while.
  • 5 replies
    • SoyCD
      SoyCD
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.02.2008 Posts: 6,356
      Hi SonicXT,

      The idea reminds me of an anecdote that Phil Gordon brings in his Little Green Book of a session in which he was playing. He was playing at a table in which they were using Green $25 chips and Black $100 dollar chips.

      At one point in time a player at the table made his continuation bet of $300 with 3 black chips - and at a later point with 12 $25 dollar chips. Phil noticed this and realized that he was trying to lure people into calling with his small looking chip amounts while trying to scare people with his large chip stacks. So he started re-raising the green chip bets and folding to the black chip bets.

      Ive also seen it often in tournaments where people start raising weird amounts - creating very imposing looking large chip raises - and had the exact same thoughts.

      So the answer to question is probably how your opponent thinks and how he interprets your betting. Does he see lots of chips and gets scared - or does he see you trying to make it look like a lot of chips, leading him to believe you are bluffing. If he is a thinking opponent that believes you are trying to intimidate through scary looking bets - using reverse psychology and making huge chip bets with strong hands would be profitable (I know i have often re-raised weird looking bets due to thinking the guy was trying to look scary).

      I think we should do some field experiments :D
    • swissmoumout
      swissmoumout
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.02.2007 Posts: 3,385
      I agree. I tend to bet one chip with the nuts, and a whole pile of em (like 49$, 39$ etc) when I want them to fold :D
      It might not have a huge effect, but I like to think it does influence them at least a little
    • SonicXT
      SonicXT
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.06.2007 Posts: 4,736
      Originally posted by SoyCD

      So the answer to question is probably how your opponent thinks and how he interprets your betting. Does he see lots of chips and gets scared - or does he see you trying to make it look like a lot of chips, leading him to believe you are bluffing. If he is a thinking opponent that believes you are trying to intimidate through scary looking bets - using reverse psychology and making huge chip bets with strong hands would be profitable (I know i have often re-raised weird looking bets due to thinking the guy was trying to look scary).

      I think we should do some field experiments :D
      For the moment I assume they're all nits, haven't seen a lot players at NL50 yet who I'd really respect.

      Anyway, I've been doing the same as swissmoumount :
      50 $ chips : Good hand/Value bet
      48 $ chips : Large stack of chips, normal number for a bluff
      46.72 $ : Huge stack, crazy number, very good hand, plz think I'm doing something crazy.
    • swissmoumout
      swissmoumout
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.02.2007 Posts: 3,385
      Originally posted by SonicXT

      46.72 $ : Huge stack, crazy number, very good hand, plz think I'm doing something crazy.
      In those cases, don't bet 46.72$, just openpush, like this: :D


      0.50/1 No-Limit Hold'em (6 handed)
      Hand recorder used for this poker hand: Texas Grabem 1.9 by www.pokerstrategy.com.

      Preflop: Hero is SB with 6:heart: , 6:spade:
      4 folds, Hero raises to $4.00, BB calls $3.00.

      Flop: ($8.00) Q:spade: , 8:club: , Q:diamond: (2 players)
      Hero bets $5, BB calls $5.00.

      Turn: ($18.00) A:spade: (2 players)
      Hero checks, BB checks.

      River: ($18.00) 6:club: (2 players)
      Hero bets $96.25 (All-In), BB calls $96.25.

      Final Pot: $210.50

      Results follow (highlight to see):
      BB shows [ 7d, Qh ] three of a kind, Queens
      Hero shows [ 6h, 6s ] a full house, Sixes full of Queens
      Hero wins $207 USD with a full house, Sixes full of Queens.
    • SonicXT
      SonicXT
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.06.2007 Posts: 4,736
      Known players: (for a description of vp$ip, pfr, ats, folded bb, af, wts, wsd or hands click here)
      MP3:
      $62.40
      CO:
      $11.75
      Hero:
      $24.90
      BB:
      $17.70
      BU:
      $22.97
      SB:
      $24.75

      0.10/0.25 No-Limit Hold'em (6 handed)
      Hand recorder used for this poker hand: Texas Grabem 1.9 by www.pokerstrategy.com.

      Preflop: Hero is MP2 with A:club: , T:heart:
      Hero raises to $1.00, MP3 folds, CO calls $1.00, 3 folds.

      Flop: ($2.35) T:diamond: , A:spade: , A:heart: (2 players)
      Hero checks, CO bets $1.25, Hero calls $1.25.

      Turn: ($4.85) 2:spade: (2 players)
      Hero checks, CO checks.

      River: ($4.85) K:heart: (2 players)
      Hero bets $10.75, CO raises to $9.50 (All-In).

      Final Pot: $25.10

      Results follow (highlight to see):
      CO shows [ Js, Jc ] two pairs, Aces and Jacks
      Hero shows [ Ac, Th ] a full house, Aces full of Tens
      Hero wins $1.25 USD with a full house, Aces full of Tens.
      Hero wins $22.66 USD with a full house, Aces full of Tens.

      This was 4 months earlier or so, pushed him AI.
      But yea, that works too sometimes :D