AQ/AJ from middle/early position :: 10 people SNGs

    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      What determines the position from which to play AJ/AQ? I've seen PS coaches argue over the position from which playing AQ or AJ is generally profitable and, honestly, I am confused.
      I am multitabling some of the smallest stakes on William Hill. Some tendencies on these limits:

      *cbets without a hit are worth to be made only on very dry boards, rarely OOP
      *most players are rather loose (thus it's possible to often see calls with hands that are dominated by both AQ and AJ)
      *most opponents are passive
  • 9 replies
    • CollinMoshman
      CollinMoshman
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 20.09.2011 Posts: 404
      There's no way to prove what the best position is to begin opening a particular hand. It depends on too many assumptions, like what hands all remaining players will flat and 3-bet with and countless post-flop variables. With that said, as a default I would begin opening AQo at roughly UTG+2 and AJo at around UTG+3 or UTG+4 10-handed.
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      I understand it is complex.

      But let's say you play at a reg infested table. How does that change your abovementioned default range?

      Or you play against tons of fish: how does that change your range?
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      I just saw pokerstrategy coach Chenny8888 fold AJo from MP and folding AJo from HJ with a limper in front of him. I really don't understand!
    • Puscherbilbo
      Puscherbilbo
      Platinum
      Joined: 17.06.2009 Posts: 1,229
      While I would not be so bold as to name a specific position I try to name a few factors that should influence your decisionmakingprocess:
      - Numbers of table you play: The more you play the less you should get involved with marginal hands. Esspecially for beginners I would suggest to reduce the tables they play instead of their OR-Range.
      - The quality of your postflopgame: I guess this one is obvious but nevertheless. Some hands can turn from marginally +EV into marginally -EV if you make some bad decisions postflop. And again you should lean towards learning either by opening more hands or perhaps even better by taking a look at NL-Cashgame basics.
      - The quality of your overall game: If you still have major leaks in the late stage of an SNG you should fix those first.
      - Your general grip on the limit you play and the amount of notes you take. In general you should not cbet too often vs the following types of opponents:

      The floater: He bets when checked to on the T. W/o a hit we do not get to the River or the SD against this guy. We cannot realize our remainin Equity with our OCs. The whole thing changes a bit once we can play iP against this player as we could think about a cbet Flop/ cb T or even a cb Flop/ call T line which increases our odds to get to SD quite a bit. As long as he gives up after one bet a lot or bets fairly small we can go to the River rather cheap in contrast to oop. The profit of our play lies in the max-Value we get for our hits. c/shoving the T or even cc T/ cc R might be neat adjustments in those cases.

      The spewtard: Basically we face the same problem with this guy. We get raised of of our hand. He is even iP not easy to play against w/o a hit. Even more so then against a "Floater" we should surrender the pot in case of a miss. We should get the money in once we hit and expect to get payed of quite often. Dry boards can be used to let him bluff at us even better than the last guy.

      The station: We all do love this guy. We valuebet him if we have it and we will not get bluffed if we don´t. So we can easily potcontrol vs him in any case with a marginal hand like Ahigh or MidPairs.

      The Regular: Against most decent Regs AJ-AK are the same hand once we face action. They will not go broke with worse hands on an Axxr-board. So even if they call AQ and go broke while you muck AK or the Split it does not happen often enough to bother you. Just think of it as extramoney for your Overpairs + Sets :)

      With your generic reads on your limit it looks quite ok to open those hands you mentioned. You might want to take a closer look as to why we actually cbet on a board w/o a hit. Even though no better hand folds and no worse hand calls, it can be profitable to cbet. We get him to fold so much live outs or prevent him from bluffing at us so that we can still realize our share of Equity in the hand.
      There has to be enough input on which boardtextures to cbet and which not in the Cashgamesection in English language as well.

      While this all sounds really nice and easy I shall spoil it at the end:

      Our major problem is to get a good enough read on our opponents to actually discern those playertypes. U need a big enough sample because Vpip/PFR won´t get it done.
      In HM the best way to identify floaters is the "bet vs missed cbet Stat".
      Spewtards should have an above average craise Flop or reraise Flop percentage.
      Stations have an AF below 1.
      Since Lowstakes generally have a big player pool we will not get enough hands on our opponents or we won´t face them often enough. Reviewsessions can help and so do those generic reads but you have to keep in mind that missing information is the key here.
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      That's some high quality information you just gave. Thanks a lot!
    • Puscherbilbo
      Puscherbilbo
      Platinum
      Joined: 17.06.2009 Posts: 1,229
      Glad to be of help.

      Axxr-board may be a bad example though since u can not have an Overpair. But vs AQ+, AA,77,44 on an A74r-board AK has not even 50% so our fold is missing out on very little EV at best.

      Q74r-board may be a better example. If he brokes KQ here we still can fold AQ easily vs his range as a whole as we have only about 40% Equity. Yet we do earn some extra EV for our Overpairs if he brokes KQ.
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      If he brokes KQ here we still can fold AQ easily vs his range as a whole as we have only about 40% Equity. Yet we do earn some extra EV for our Overpairs if he brokes KQ.


      Why is that so? With AQ we block his Q outs.
    • Puscherbilbo
      Puscherbilbo
      Platinum
      Joined: 17.06.2009 Posts: 1,229
      If he brokes KQ, AQ, KK, AA, QQ, 77 and 44 we can not call vs his range with AQ so we should basically cbet/fold vs action.
      If he folds KQ pre like i believe he should we can not get paid postflop.
      If he 3bets QQ-AA it is a different matter but vs Regs this is problematic itself.
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      I understood it now! Thanks!