Damned Protection!

    • gadget51
      gadget51
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.06.2008 Posts: 5,622
      Ok, so I have broached this topic before, but was unsatisfied by the answers.

      I've heard a lot recently about 'Protecting my equity in the hand' and 'Protecting my hand against draws etc.,' and I just do not get it at all.

      Example, I have initiative IP and HU holding AhKc on flop 5dKs6c and I bet 3/4 pot to protect v draws and for value.
      Well If I'm betting for value, why does my hand need protecting?

      The only way I can protect my hand is to give the guy the chance to make a mistake or shoot the villain, the latter being almost always -ev.

      So, here're my thoughts. I have 3 hand groups I think;

      1. I have a value hand so I play it for value.
      2. I have a showdown hand, so I try to get to showdown, usually as cheaply as possible.
      3. I have a bluff hand.

      My hand categorization obviously changes iwth the action and by the street of course it does.

      So which category needs protecting? The hand I'm trying to extract value from the villain with and which my turn into a showdown hand on the turn?
      The hand I'm not sure about but would like to get to the river cheaply with possibly the best hand, maybe not and which my turn into a value/bluff hand by the river?
      The bluff?

      It just doesn't make any sense to me, not one bit.

      I wouldn't bring this up but it's started to get in my head and my game is getting messed up because of it. I don't know whether I'm protecting, value betting or trying to get to bloody showdown witha bluffing value hand anymore. ?(

      So, bearing in mind my nl4/nl10 little brain, can someone please help here?
  • 11 replies
    • EmanuelC16
      EmanuelC16
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      Joined: 02.01.2010 Posts: 13,897
      The short answer is:

      Protection is not a reason for betting but a consequence of it.
    • gadget51
      gadget51
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      Joined: 23.06.2008 Posts: 5,622
      Well thanks for the reply EmanuelC16, it's much appreciated.
    • EmanuelC16
      EmanuelC16
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      Joined: 02.01.2010 Posts: 13,897
      Originally posted by gadget51
      Well thanks for the reply EmanuelC16, it's much appreciated.
      LOL! :f_biggrin:

      Did that answer really help that much?
    • Tarhonya
      Tarhonya
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.07.2010 Posts: 694
      Originally posted by gadget51
      Example, I have initiative IP and HU holding AhKc on flop 5dKs6c and I bet 3/4 pot to protect v draws and for value.
      Well If I'm betting for value, why does my hand need protecting?
      Don't separate the hands as you do imo. In this example you have top pair, hence showdown value. You raise for value and you raise big so that hands like 89 can't continue profitably, but if you raise small (or decide to slowplay and don't raise at all) villain might call and hit his gutshot.

      Protection gets more important in multiway pots, like if in your example there would be 2 more players in the pot. Your hand is most likely the best, but if you don't raise, or raise too small, than palyers have a chance to complete draws which will beat your top pair.

      Generally you bet for value and by betting you protect your hand as well. And you can't protect your hand when you're on a bluff since there is nothing to protect, every hand is probably better than yours.

      I hope it helps.
    • clawindsouza
      clawindsouza
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      Joined: 08.12.2009 Posts: 7,085
      Originally posted by EmanuelC16
      Originally posted by gadget51
      Well thanks for the reply EmanuelC16, it's much appreciated.
      LOL! :f_biggrin:

      Did that answer really help that much?

      i think u got levelled

      EDIT: actually you make a lot ofsense (even though im not sure if you were just trolling)
    • clawindsouza
      clawindsouza
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.12.2009 Posts: 7,085
      Well i shall tell you what it is by taking 2 examples.

      Ex 1) For just value
      You have KK on a k82 rainbow board. No matter what amount you bet, you are always betting for value since no worse hands really get the right price to call. So betting 1/3rd pot would also be alright.


      Ex 2) For Value + Protection

      You have AcKc on Kd8s2s board against one opponent out of position.

      Lets assume hes a player who would call with any king and a flush only(lets say he has KsJs here) . Betting only for value would not make sense. Coz betting below 1/2 the pot would give him the right odds to call to hit his flush draw + jack.

      so you will need to bet enough to not give him the right odds to call. So youre betting for 2 reasons - for value since u believe you have the best hand + protection since you dont want him to hit his draws.
    • EmanuelC16
      EmanuelC16
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2010 Posts: 13,897
      Originally posted by clawindsouza
      Originally posted by EmanuelC16
      Originally posted by gadget51
      Well thanks for the reply EmanuelC16, it's much appreciated.
      LOL! :f_biggrin:

      Did that answer really help that much?

      i think u got levelled

      EDIT: actually you make a lot ofsense (even though im not sure if you were just trolling)
      It makes plenty of sense but I expected more questions about it.
    • Slurpee
      Slurpee
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.10.2010 Posts: 140
      Originally posted by clawindsouza
      Well i shall tell you what it is by taking 2 examples.

      Ex 1) For just value
      You have KK on a k82 rainbow board. No matter what amount you bet, you are always betting for value since no worse hands really get the right price to call. So betting 1/3rd pot would also be alright.


      Ex 2) For Value + Protection

      You have AcKc on Kd8s2s board against one opponent out of position.

      Lets assume hes a player who would call with any king and a flush only(lets say he has KsJs here) . Betting only for value would not make sense. Coz betting below 1/2 the pot would give him the right odds to call to hit his flush draw + jack.

      so you will need to bet enough to not give him the right odds to call. So youre betting for 2 reasons - for value since u believe you have the best hand + protection since you dont want him to hit his draws.
      very good examples. well explained ty
    • vivek200311
      vivek200311
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.09.2010 Posts: 261
      Originally posted by EmanuelC16
      quote:
      Originally posted by gadget51
      Well thanks for the reply EmanuelC16, it's much appreciated.


      LOL! fish biggrin

      Did that answer really help that much?



      i think u got levelled


      haha
    • clawindsouza
      clawindsouza
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.12.2009 Posts: 7,085
      Originally posted by Slurpee
      Originally posted by clawindsouza
      Well i shall tell you what it is by taking 2 examples.

      Ex 1) For just value
      You have KK on a k82 rainbow board. No matter what amount you bet, you are always betting for value since no worse hands really get the right price to call. So betting 1/3rd pot would also be alright.


      Ex 2) For Value + Protection

      You have AcKc on Kd8s2s board against one opponent out of position.

      Lets assume hes a player who would call with any king and a flush only(lets say he has KsJs here) . Betting only for value would not make sense. Coz betting below 1/2 the pot would give him the right odds to call to hit his flush draw + jack.

      so you will need to bet enough to not give him the right odds to call. So youre betting for 2 reasons - for value since u believe you have the best hand + protection since you dont want him to hit his draws.
      very good examples. well explained ty
      :s_cool:
    • gadget51
      gadget51
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.06.2008 Posts: 5,622
      Ok all, thanks a lot for the help in this. I do believe the light shines evr so dimly in the distance, but at least I can see it now.

      @Emanuel, the problem with asking more questions is what questions to ask when I know so little. :(

      thanks again all. Have fun. :f_love: