[NL2-NL10] NL10 FR Ako 13.11

    • UnknownJoseph
      UnknownJoseph
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.04.2010 Posts: 5,735
      Pacific Poker - $0.10 NL - Holdem - 9 players
      Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

      BTN: $12.12
      SB: $10.00
      BB: $2.00
      UTG: $10.00
      Hero (UTG+1): $11.08
      MP: $10.73
      MP+1: $10.00
      LP: $2.00
      CO: $15.30

      SB posts SB $0.05, BB posts BB $0.10

      Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero has A:heart: K:diamond:

      UTG raises to $0.20, Hero calls $0.20, MP calls $0.20, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold

      Flop: ($0.75, 3 players) Q:club: A:diamond: 3:heart:
      UTG checks, Hero bets $0.55, MP calls $0.55, fold

      Turn: ($1.85, 2 players) 2:diamond:
      Hero bets $1.35, MP calls $1.35

      River: ($4.55, 2 players) 8:diamond:
      Hero bets $2.30, MP raises to $8.63, fold



      I decided not to 3B because this player had tight range pfr. I didn't know his betting habit and this kind of small raise I very respect in player like him how don't know what they are doing...
      On letter street I was against completely bad player. On the turn I think that I should have bet harder. I have to change this because sometime I don't adjust betting against bad player. In this example I think that I could have bet harder because his wtsd: 39% and FtCbet Turn: 0%!!! So I should have had value from players like him.
      On the river I didn't want to check/fold so I bet blocking bet. I think that I was behind on this street. Maybe he hit his one of the out, maybe flush. It's hard to say but he aggression on this street was 1 so I don't think so that this player was bluffing.
  • 9 replies
    • nobode
      nobode
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.01.2011 Posts: 20
      You should definite 3bet preflop not only for value, but also to isolate against the original raiser. With his stats, I would think he has quite a static raising range, so even if he only open 7% of his hands from UTG, you would still be ahead of his range with AKo here. AKo also plays better heads-up so you don't really like a multiway pot here especially with a min raise and a lot of players left to act behind you.

      As played, I think the flop is fine. The turn could be higher to protect your hand against flush draws and some straight draws. On the river, I personally would bet higher, especially against a fish. Either way, when I got raised here I would just fold without further reads on the villain. He could've called us preflop with a lot of things since it was so cheap. He could have a wheel, a flush, or a slowplayed set here. If he wanted to bluff with a bare ace, he would've probably done it on the turn, or the flop. So unless you have a history with him, he probably has you beat here. At NL10, fish aren't going to make many bluffs at you, especially on the river, they play pretty face up imo. :)
    • UnknownJoseph
      UnknownJoseph
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.04.2010 Posts: 5,735
      I would like to ask about 3B Nobode...
      Why do you want to 3B this player for value or as a bluff?
    • nobode
      nobode
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.01.2011 Posts: 20
      Originally posted by BGawli
      I would like to ask about 3B Nobode...
      Why do you want to 3B this player for value or as a bluff?
      Well, with AKo you're going to 3bet for value since your hand is way ahead of his raise/call range. If he's really tight, he can raise/call here with like 88+, AJs+, KJs+, AQo+ and you will still be a little ahead. He'll most likely raise the top of his range though. Either way, with AKo, your hand is really strong against his unless you know for a fact that he'll only continue with AA, KK here. The main thing here is that you don't really like going into a multiway pot with AKo and let many players try to outdraw you.

      3bet bluffs I believe are done mainly for fold equity and thus should be attempt against later positions' raises since their opening ranges are wider and they have to fold a large part of their hands against 3bets. Unless the raiser from early positions are maniacs who raise a lot of hands from the positions, you're not going to get them to fold a lot of their open ranges, so you should 3bet for value and not as bluffs.

      Hope this helps. :)
    • UnknownJoseph
      UnknownJoseph
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.04.2010 Posts: 5,735
      You are wrong that you are 3betting for value. Vs his calling 3B range your are behind.

      I would be inclined to 3B him only because I don't have a lot of hand on him and he is a little unknown player for me but according to his stats 3b is mistake against this player.

      If you don't know what I'm talking about you pokerstove and make calculation with his range.

      Hope this helps.:)
    • muel294
      muel294
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.06.2009 Posts: 1,207
      Originally posted by BGawli
      You are wrong that you are 3betting for value. Vs his calling 3B range your are behind.
      +1

      his 7% pfr would look something like: 88+,ATs+,KTs+,AQo+

      but from UTG I think it is more like: 88+,AQs+,AQo+

      so by 3betting a tight player we will only isolate ourselves against the following (and this is being optimistic to prove a point)


             Equity     Win     Tie
      UTG    57.18%  42.44%  14.74% { JJ+, AQs+, AKo }
      UTG+1  42.82%  28.08%  14.74% { AKo }


      realisticly it is probably:



             Equity     Win     Tie
      UTG    61.18%  40.50%  20.68% { QQ+, AKs, AKo }
      UTG+1  38.82%  18.15%  20.68% { AKo }
    • Heffron89
      Heffron89
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.01.2009 Posts: 813
      As he only minopens I would certainly 3bet here because everyone else will get so good odds to call.

      But if he 4x opened I would call too keep his weaker aces in the pot, such as At Aj AQ which he might stack off with if there comes and Ace on the board.
    • nobode
      nobode
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.01.2011 Posts: 20
      Hmm...you guys are right. I probably shouldn't have said it was for value in this situation although I do think that you're probably ahead of his range since most bad players at this limit have very static ranges from my experience. They play the same hand from every position. Also, I would think that most players would just shove their aces and kings. But without further reads and more samples, that's probably presumptuous of me.

      You should probably still 3bet him in this situation though since with only a minraise and a caller the rest of the table is going to have very good odds to call. The BB is going to get 1:5.5 odds and you most likely will not get to play the pot heads-up. I also think my edge is bigger postflop and would rather play there against the villain. You also risk less 3betting a minraise than a 3 or 4x.

      I guess a 3bet would be bad if the villain open very tight and only call less than half his hands against a 3bet and call with aces and kings rather than shove all the time. Since he's passive and there's no more reads on him, I guess 3bet might not be the best option here. Personally I would never call here though, if I think he's really that tight, I would rather just fold here in this specific situations. I tend to be very aggressive, though, so maybe that's just me. :P
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello BGawli,

      Well, you shouldn't always ask ourselves either we do value-raise it or not. But also take few factors into account:
      • What kind of position we have? -> UTG1
      • What kind of opponent we have? -> Tight PFR, most likely even more tighter from UTG
      • What kind of raise size he has? -> Min-Raise!
      • What kind of opponents we have behind us? -> As from the MP stats I see some loose opponents.
      • We don't want to play AKo in multiway pot.
      • Maybe even some more factors?

      But already taken into account the factors -> UTG1, Min-Raise, Loose opponents behind us, we don't want to play the hand in multiway pot. I'd be towards 3betting here. We ain't only doing it for value but at the same time we are going for protection and avoiding to face a multiway pot. After that we can always decide what our line is going to be. If he really comes over the top and 4bets us somewhat bigger we can still easily fold the hand. :) But he may as well even Call us while we have 2 blockers.

      Best Regards.
    • muel294
      muel294
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.06.2009 Posts: 1,207
      fair play nobode, guess you were right :P