repeating same mistake over and over

    • clydePHP
      clydePHP
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.03.2011 Posts: 322
      PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, 1.5 Tournament, 100/200 Blinds (5 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

      Button (t2935)
      Hero (SB) (t2605)
      BB (t2775)
      UTG (t3045)
      MP (t2140)

      Hero's M: 8.68

      Preflop: Hero is SB with 5, 5
      2 folds, Button calls t200, Hero bets t2605 (All-In), 1 fold, Button calls t2405

      Flop: (t5410) J, Q, J (2 players, 1 all-in)

      Turn: (t5410) 9 (2 players, 1 all-in)

      River: (t5410) 4 (2 players, 1 all-in)

      Total pot: t5410

      Results:
      Button had K, K (two pair, Kings and Jacks).
      Hero had 5, 5 (two pair, Jacks and fives).
      Outcome: Button won t5410



      give me some advice how not to do this crap over and over again i knew there was wrong he never calls from button either raise or fold .

      its not like i do this every time but this cost $ eachtime ill make this mistake .
  • 13 replies
    • dogma18
      dogma18
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.12.2009 Posts: 340
      its not that bad but i think a check is better. I've been playing the $1.50s and they are either trapping or have a hand that they will call if only one player is all in. The only thing you are ahead of is weak aces like A2-A5. just check and hope for a low board or a 5. If he bets two streets with broadway cards out there then fold.
    • Washdogg
      Washdogg
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.05.2008 Posts: 82
      No. Shove is fine. He probably plays his smaller pairs the same way. Unless you have hundreds of hands on the BU the shove is fine. A lot of the time he has 2 overcards which you are a favorite over and imo, a ton of FE. I will make that shove 100% of the time unless I have notes that he only ever limps monsters from BU in which case I'm just folding.
    • clydePHP
      clydePHP
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.03.2011 Posts: 322
      thank you if isn't that bad .. yeah alot of the time its monster should have raise/call it . i knew there is a high chance his holding a monster lack of concentration and convincing myself he doesn't have it.
    • Washdogg
      Washdogg
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.05.2008 Posts: 82
      If it was a monster why raise/call? If you're convinced its a monster you fold. If not, you shove. You shouldn't be splashing around with raises and call with an M of 8.
    • dogma18
      dogma18
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.12.2009 Posts: 340
      The reason why a shove is in my opinion bad is because at $1.50 players are limp/calling or limp/trapping a lot more. Fold equity is reduced and you gain nothing by risking your chips here.

      Think about it, if the player is stupid enough to limp his weak hands on the button here, he's stupid enough to call lighter than say a TAG reg who will never limp in the first place. If you shove and he calls both your equities are reduced even if you are 52% fav.

      Raise/fold is not great either as he might call and your likely to be facing overcards on the flop as well as being out of position.
    • Washdogg
      Washdogg
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.05.2008 Posts: 82
      Ok, but at $1.50 people are limp folding a ton and you profit 2.5 BB into your 13 BB stack. Also, this deep in the tourney with this shallow of a stack why would you not want a spot where you're a 55% fav? You have zero postflop play left in your stack. With this size you need to get in preflop at some point and you're certainly not looking to fold around until you find like AJ and get in vs KQ for only 60%.

      If you shove and get 2 calls, oh well, coolers happen. And at this stack size I'll take 55 vs his 2 overs all day. There's even an extra big and small blind in there for extra equity. Again, if he only shows monsters here I fold obv. But if this is a standard (even if loose) range I'm shoving all day. Unless ofc we're on the bubble and hero for whatever reason just needs a cash, then fold is better.
    • MatejM47
      MatejM47
      Black
      Joined: 21.01.2010 Posts: 1,193
      Originally posted by Washdogg
      Unless ofc we're on the bubble and hero for whatever reason just needs a cash, then fold is better.
      Yeah 3$ is life changing money :)
    • Washdogg
      Washdogg
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.05.2008 Posts: 82
      Yeah I guess I didn't realize this is a SNG. In which case 100% shove. I was thinking it coulda been MTT and who knows, I'm not judging what $3 means to someone else. But w/e.
    • dogma18
      dogma18
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.12.2009 Posts: 340
      ^^
    • CollinMoshman
      CollinMoshman
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 20.09.2011 Posts: 407
      Without any particular reads, this is a fine shove. We win 2.5 bb uncontested a lot of the time, and when called are usually racing against overcards. Just to clarify though, it's an even better shove in an MTT where we don't have ICM concerns.
    • dogma18
      dogma18
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.12.2009 Posts: 340
      hey colin, i understand your point.

      It just so happens i have been reading through your book, ''sit n go strategy'' this past week and you make a point that it might not be a good idea to push small edges if you have a greater edge over opponents and can find more clear spots. I know this mostly refers to stealing light from button/small blind, but would this hand not be a good example of this too?

      Btw book was great, really helped with the mid stage play which i felt was my weakest area.
    • CollinMoshman
      CollinMoshman
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 20.09.2011 Posts: 407
      Thanks dogma, very glad you're enjoying the book. When it comes to hands like this, the difficulty is that we must assign the limper two ranges -- one for limping and one for calling our shove. This way we know how often he'll fold, and what equity we have against his range when he calls. While your opponent may have been trapping here, my experience with most unknown/recreational players is that they're mainly limping marginal hands in late position and will often fold. So I still like coming in with a shove here to win a nice % of our stack uncontested, and if not still have decent equity against his calling range.
    • DonCorleone369
      DonCorleone369
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.11.2009 Posts: 1,267
      Originally posted by dogma18
      The reason why a shove is in my opinion bad is because at $1.50 players are limp/calling or limp/trapping a lot more. Fold equity is reduced and you gain nothing by risking your chips here.

      Think about it, if the player is stupid enough to limp his weak hands on the button here, he's stupid enough to call lighter than say a TAG reg who will never limp in the first place. If you shove and he calls both your equities are reduced even if you are 52% fav.

      Raise/fold is not great either as he might call and your likely to be facing overcards on the flop as well as being out of position.
      +1

      I'd shove 77+/88+ since we are 13bbs effective and a check behind is more than fine. I agree these fishes will limp/call quite often and call you lighter. You are only crushing 22-44 and A2-A4o, flipping against most of the other hands and you're even slightly behind against some suited broadways such as QTs (which they def like to call with). 55 vs QTs= 48.728% vs 51.272%.

      I don't like raise/folding either as I hate playing pots OOP but no big deal in doing so if you feel comfortable enough with your postflop play OOP and you like to put yourself in difficult spots. just my 2cents ;)