[NL2-NL10] nl4 Was This Shove a Mistake?

    • Ghartman
      Joined: 28.10.2011 Posts: 273

      0.02/0.04 No-Limit Hold'em (4 handed)
      Hand recorder used for this poker hand: PokerStrategy.com Elephant 0.105 by www.pokerstrategy.com.

      Preflop: Hero is BU with A:diamond: , 3:diamond:
      CO raises to $0.12, Hero calls $0.12, 2 folds.

      Flop: ($0.30) 8:diamond: , 6:diamond: , 3:heart: (2 players)
      CO bets $0.3, Hero raises to $0.85, CO raises to $2.85, Hero raises to $4.35 (All-In), CO calls $1.50.

      Turn: ($9.00) Q:heart:
      River: ($9.00) K:spade: (2 players)

      Final Pot: $9.00

      Results follow (highlight to see):
      CO shows three-of-a-kind, sixes (6s 6c)
      Hero shows (Ad 3d)

      CO wins with three-of-a-kind, sixes (6s 6c)

      This guy had just lost a big pot and tilt was definitely a factor. 12 possible outs on the flop. Was getting the money all in a mistake? Let me know what you think guys.
  • 4 replies
    • Slurpee
      Joined: 28.10.2010 Posts: 140
      i think veriz will tell you its a mistake :p

      pretty bad shove imo, you had position on him and had you called his flop/turn bet could've seen the last 2 community cards for much cheaper, and prob saved yourself a dollar or two when you missed or he would've stacked off on you regardless with his set if you did end up hitting that set.

      interesting to see veriz response on this
    • Kaitz20
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343

      I think this is perfectly fine play. You have nut flushdraw+ pair that is very strong hand on the flop. Problem is that you only have pair of 3-s, so if you can make fold better hand, like 44 or 67s or maybe even TT it is really big win for you, so I like your flop raise and getting all-in on the flop.
      Also this way you don´t give any free cards to the broadway hands that might easily bet turn and then c/c river and if you get all-in against 99-KK you´re flipping:

      board: 8d6d3h
      Hand Equity Wins Ties
      Ad3d 50.22% 14,916 0
      99-KK 49.78% 14,784 0

      So raising and pushing your fold equity seems to me best play this case.
    • veriz
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello Ghartman,

      Well, obviously would be nice to hear how the guy plays, how loose opens and stuff. But first thing I'd mention we can never-ever put the opponent here just on the overpair. Why should we? I mean why can't he have some kind of T:d9 draw himself for example? Why can't he have sets? There are a sets possible. We know so far that he might be on the tilt. Therefore we have to ask ourselves, should we really raise here and play for the stacks?

      We need here ~49% equity and against overpairs we of course get it. While we haven't really invested much into the pot and he even bets pot size. We should really ask if we should raise here. While we getting really good implied odds might be better idea to just Call, especially when the guy is on a tilt.

      But afterwards you raise then you should already know yourself what you gonna do it. I mean why do you raise in first place? Do you ever expect to get fold equity against overpairs? Especially if he is loose and might be on the tilt? For example against some made hands as well and a strong draw:

      Board: 8:diamond: 6:diamond: 3:heart:
             Equity     Win     Tie
      UTG    54.19%  54.19%   0.01% { 88+, 66, 33, A8s, Td9d, A8o }
      UTG+1  45.81%  45.80%   0.01% { Ad3d }

      We ain't getting that good equity.

      Best Regards.
    • Ghartman
      Joined: 28.10.2011 Posts: 273

      It's interesting to see the differing views on this hand. It just goes to show that the game can be played in so many different ways. In all honesty, I'm ok with how I played it. I was quite happy to get the money in with my hand, I'm pretty sure it was +EV? Anyhow, I've got loads of these types of situations in my database so I'll keep them coming! Also, it would have been interesting if I hadn't posted the result of the hand, which I should not have done anyway, to see if the evaluations would have been different.

      Thanks guys