Known When to Hold 'em, Know When to Fold 'em

  • 10 replies
    • SPeedFANat1c
      SPeedFANat1c
      Silver
      Joined: 04.01.2009 Posts: 5,119
      Raise'em preflop
    • UTGDog
      UTGDog
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.11.2011 Posts: 72
      Originally posted by SPeedFANat1c
      Raise'em preflop
      Figured raising would just cause him to fold rather than give me any further value for my hand. Simply caught a bad flop this time.
    • gadget51
      gadget51
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.06.2008 Posts: 5,622
      How did you figure that out after what looks like 46 hands? It ay be possible if villain was an agro-tard postflop but doent appear to be.
      Don't bother getting fancy, just get the money in as quickly as possible preflop, or suffer the postflop consequences as here.
      We live and learn.

      GL and have fun!
    • ShaQQ
      ShaQQ
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.10.2008 Posts: 162
      By re-raising to .3 pre flop you're allowing yourself the opportunity to get it in on the flop regardless of the board, also you're getting value out of your opponents with the best hand and ideally give them the option to overplay and get it in pre flop. As played I call his pot bet because at best you're slightly over 50%, and I then evaluate the turn, he overplays many queens with a club here and a lot of non club queens, sometimes even 1 club. In short there is a lot of stuff you still beat and can get away from on turns that aren't desirable :) Keeping the pot relatively small and controlled. Hope it helps :) Paul.
    • UTGDog
      UTGDog
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.11.2011 Posts: 72
      Originally posted by ShaQQ
      By re-raising to .3 pre flop you're allowing yourself the opportunity to get it in on the flop regardless of the board, also you're getting value out of your opponents with the best hand and ideally give them the option to overplay and get it in pre flop. As played I call his pot bet because at best you're slightly over 50%, and I then evaluate the turn, he overplays many queens with a club here and a lot of non club queens, sometimes even 1 club. In short there is a lot of stuff you still beat and can get away from on turns that aren't desirable :) Keeping the pot relatively small and controlled. Hope it helps :) Paul.
      Well since I didnt know much about the player other than basing his play off how I have seen other players play, I figured trapping with the As here and letting him over play his hand would be the best option preflop. Post flop I mad ethe decision to fold be cause of many things.

      First, I dont know much about the player or his tendancies. Second, if I call his bet on the flop, and he is overplaying a Q-club, he will fire again on the turn and I am put at another decision for more chips on the turn and will likely be forced to fold there, or again on the river (depending on what happens on the turn). By folding on the flop I eliminate having to call/fold and lose more chips when I know very little about my opponent.

      I posted this hand just to illustrate self discipline. ABC poker says reraise preflop, but I say i'll flat in the BB with As all day long and likely win more over the long term by trapping in that particular preflop situation than if I were to give away my hand strength before the cards are even down. On any other type of non-scary board I would have been fine, but with that wet board I dont want to be forced to guess on later streets and risk more of my stack...
    • UTGDog
      UTGDog
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.11.2011 Posts: 72
      If i knew more about my opponent, such as he is super aggressive or an idiot, I may play different preflop and post flop. But with little info, I need to choose the path of least resistance. Calling a bet just to fold to another on a later street is just foolish and, sorry for saying, but I completely disagree with that statement.
    • ShaQQ
      ShaQQ
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.10.2008 Posts: 162
      Personally the only time I'm flatting aces or kings pre flop to an open from MP is if I'm doing it for deception on the button or CO and 2 aggro players who think a level ahead the average and perceive the spot as perfect for a squeeze, after seeing similar plays after 1k+ hands or a known aggro player in the bb (to balance calling range).
      In terms of my response by calling the flop you're keeping in bluffs, pairs and 1 card clubs, you still have the best hand a ton and you're controlling the pot, raising only sets, flushes and TPFD w/ TPTK but you're 3betting most of that range anyway.
      If you feel adamant to take a flat line pre with aces then I probably flat flop and raise blank turns, but it still feels horrendous and mega spewy. 2nl isn't the time to deviate from "ABC" or I prefer calling it TAG and just focus on playing hands for value and 3betting premiums pre.
      You can show discipline far better by making tough folds post flop or thinking about spots to value town opponents, by flatting aces pre you're basically overcomplicating a simple spot to 3bet get it in pre or building a pot to get it in on most flops.
      PS is a site that has solid winning players write their articles, so deviating from advice that is tried and tested is not necessary. Again, GL in the future and all the best.
    • bazfresh
      bazfresh
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.08.2010 Posts: 64
      all in its 2NL!!
    • Gantz189
      Gantz189
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.07.2011 Posts: 39
      The fact that you don't know much about this opponent is why you should always be raising pre
    • UTGDog
      UTGDog
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.11.2011 Posts: 72
      Points taken. I guess I see now where you are all coming from. NL2 most players don't really understand "trickiness" and I should just play straight forward. I'll keep that in mind for future hands. Thanks for the constructive support on this everyone :]