Tournament final table attitude

    • KozakFB
      KozakFB
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.08.2011 Posts: 395
      So I was talking to this guy today while playing live, we had been involved in a final table before where I had folded top pair to a raise before me and he had called with an open ender, I asked him if I had shoved with top pair would he have folded.

      He responded that he was open ended and would have gambled there.

      That got me to thinking about what would the best attitude on a final table.

      I think I kind of agree with his high risk > high reward attitude. Its a final table and anything can happen and you should be aiming to win rather than just make a pay jump right?
  • 26 replies
    • Heave112
      Heave112
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.03.2009 Posts: 456
      its a really fishy way to think, I would never AI with a OESD if I know I will be called with Top Pair, especially if it's early in a Final Table and he has me covered or equal stacks, I dont know why he would have a hand like 56 or 78 unless he was on button/sb/bb. Anyways he's a fish from the way he answered the question. If I was a massive chiplead and facing a lower stack lets say 15-20% of my stack then I would probably put some pressure on him(Fold Equity) by shoving with my OESD, since i'm good like 32% of the time even if I get called and since it's early in the tournament he wouldn't want to get kicked out too early.
    • phantommm92
      phantommm92
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.05.2010 Posts: 1,464
      well, firstly, open enders are of 2 genders, if you have an overcard it does give you a lot of equity. secondly, it really depends on the structure and the blinds, stacks sizes, so as pretty much always in poker- depends, can't rly say it's right or wrong.
    • Heave112
      Heave112
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.03.2009 Posts: 456
      since the OP's was so vague with the post I assumed it was 2 unders and a straight draw, it all depends on villains percieved range and how loose he is, I dont suggest you AI with an OESD at any point early in a Final Table, unless you have a hand like KQ, and flop is 10J2 , then maybe you can take the risk since ur 50-50 against most Jx hands
    • MJPerry
      MJPerry
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.10.2011 Posts: 4,908
      Originally posted by Heave112
      since the OP's was so vague with the post I assumed it was 2 unders and a straight draw, it all depends on villains percieved range and how loose he is, I dont suggest you AI with an OESD at any point early in a Final Table, unless you have a hand like KQ, and flop is 10J2 , then maybe you can take the risk since ur 50-50 against most Jx hands
      Careful - "most Jx hands" are KJ, QJ and AJ which take some of your outs away. You're around 40% v. JT-AJ on the flop you described.
    • Alficor1
      Alficor1
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.06.2010 Posts: 7,291
      Depends on your edge over players.. For example if you are a NL2 donk and somehow manage to final table Sunday Milskie, then i would absolutely gamble here with any kind of legit draw.
    • JackxxRatt
      JackxxRatt
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.07.2007 Posts: 116
      There's no correct answer to OPs question, it's all circumstancial.

      If I'm desperately shortstacked I'd probably make the call if I had the correct odds (given there's at least 2 other villains in OPs situation this is almost certainly the case). If I'm not so desperate for chips I can easily fold without any need for 'gambling'.
    • KozakFB
      KozakFB
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.08.2011 Posts: 395
      Caller had 2 overs (8/9)

      Flop was 6/7/2 rainbow board.

      I had 10/7 (big blind)

      Raise and call before me from MP1 and CO which leads me to fold and UTG to call.

      10 on turn seals the straight, UTG goes all in, MP1 calls, CO folds.

      River blanks with a 2.

      I was admittedly surprised by UTG play.
    • phantommm92
      phantommm92
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.05.2010 Posts: 1,464
      firstly-still, no action, what happened preflop
      secondly-as you said, as i understand there was only a bet and a call, and even if there was a bet,raise and call, he defo has the odds to call, tho shipping might be even better, depending on the stack sizes.
    • KozakFB
      KozakFB
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.08.2011 Posts: 395
      Blinds 5/10k, everyone at table has less than 50k stacks, action pre is limped pot.
    • MatejM47
      MatejM47
      Black
      Joined: 21.01.2010 Posts: 1,193
      Originally posted by KozakFB
      Blinds 5/10k, everyone at table has less than 50k stacks, action pre is limped pot.
      When you flop as strong as OSED with 10BB stack there is no way your ever folding.
    • deezer79
      deezer79
      Silver
      Joined: 13.06.2011 Posts: 191
      Blinds are so high at the end of a tourney that most are short staked but if you both have 50BB, I would fold to your shove. Price is too high. 10BB and it's no choice at all, gotta call. With 10BB I doubt I'd be in a hand unless all in (or a multi-limped BB).

      Some draws are just too strong tho; open ended straight draw and I'm looking for a way to get it all in. But your premise is right IMO, you should be looking to take first rather than moving up one or two on the pay scale.
    • JackxxRatt
      JackxxRatt
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      Joined: 18.07.2007 Posts: 116
      lol, I think somebody is making it up as they go along.
    • KozakFB
      KozakFB
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      Joined: 18.08.2011 Posts: 395
      Originally posted by JackxxRatt
      lol, I think somebody is making it up as they go along.
      Obv. I don't remember all details seeing as it was a live tourney and have to make rough estimations but its part of APL, stacks being less than 10BB at final table is standard.
    • phantommm92
      phantommm92
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.05.2010 Posts: 1,464
      Originally posted by KozakFB
      Originally posted by JackxxRatt
      lol, I think somebody is making it up as they go along.
      Obv. I don't remember all details seeing as it was a live tourney and have to make rough estimations but its part of APL, stacks being less than 10BB at final table is standard.
      lol, if you talk about shitty turbo tourneys, then i agree, otherwise, it's not standard
    • KozakFB
      KozakFB
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.08.2011 Posts: 395
      Originally posted by phantommm92
      Originally posted by KozakFB
      Originally posted by JackxxRatt
      lol, I think somebody is making it up as they go along.
      Obv. I don't remember all details seeing as it was a live tourney and have to make rough estimations but its part of APL, stacks being less than 10BB at final table is standard.
      lol, if you talk about shitty turbo tourneys, then i agree, otherwise, it's not standard
      I said APL (Australian Poker League).

      Its live, 15 minute blinds.
    • deezer79
      deezer79
      Silver
      Joined: 13.06.2011 Posts: 191
      Originally posted by deezer79
      Some draws are just too strong tho; open ended straight draw and I'm looking for a way to get it all in.
      Meant to say "open ended straight flush draw". DUHHH!
    • chenny8888
      chenny8888
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.10.2007 Posts: 19,324
      <10bb there's no way i'm getting away from top pair, middle pair, bottom pair, open enders with overcards, open enders without overcards or gutshots with overcards
    • phantommm92
      phantommm92
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.05.2010 Posts: 1,464
      mm, i think you made it over the top with the bottom pair chenny :D
    • donigorini
      donigorini
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.09.2009 Posts: 15
      what is pasword
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