[NL2-NL10] Bad play or good catch?

    • HansTheGreat
      HansTheGreat
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.02.2010 Posts: 3,807
      Hand converted with online PokerStrategy.com hand converter:

      Play hand

      $0.02/$0.05 No-Limit Hold'em (6 handed)

      Known players:
      SB:
      $4.07
      BB:
      $2.98
      MP2:
      $1.98
      MP3:
      $12.64
      CO (Hero):
      $5.00
      BU:
      $13.74


      Preflop: Hero is CO with T, T.
      2 folds, Hero raises to $0.20, 2 folds, BB raises to $0.50, Hero calls $0.30.

      Flop: ($1.02) 3, 6, 2 (2 players)
      BB bets $0.50, Hero calls $0.50.

      Turn: ($2.02) Q (2 players)
      BB bets $0.50, Hero calls $0.50.

      River: ($3.02) Q (2 players)
      BB bets $1.48, Hero calls $1.48.

      Final Pot: $5.98.
      Results follow:

      Hero shows two pairs, queens and tens(T T).
      BB shows a pair of queens(K A).

      Hero wins with two pairs, queens and tens(T T).
  • 7 replies
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello Sikac,

      Well, before we gonna talk about good or bad catch we need to talk about how we saw the opponent. Since you only beat bluff on the river or really badly played small PP. :) Did you expect that to see? Or how did you saw the opponent and what made you think that you are still ahead on the river?

      Was it the 1st time he 3bet? Has he been cbetting into you a lot of times? Is he aggressive? Is he unknown?

      Against unknown I might even just play Fit&Fold to avoid exactly such spots where we kinda force us to make hero-calls. That's usually our plan with calling the 3bet unless we have some other expectations.

      Best Regards.
    • HansTheGreat
      HansTheGreat
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.02.2010 Posts: 3,807
      The 3betting range from BB against the CO raise is pretty much AJs+,AQo+,TT+. The flop is for most player on this limits one of the most scariest because they are attached to premium pairs even if they sometimes have blockers. Second important thing is his bet sizing on flop and turn. From my experience I can say that when people cbet in a 3bet just 50% of the pot they do it just because they feel they have to but do not really represent value. Put yourself in his position an you will find yourself betting very strong your premium pairs to pay draws out. I call his cbet and I pretty much represent a overpair in his eyes or that I m drawing. He probably doesnt assume that I hit the flush already. That he hasn t a premium pair was obvious on the turn. I mean his bet was one of them that saying "I still have to bet because I have a draw and maybe this pay I will have to invest less." Simply put yourself in his position with a premium pair and especially on this limits where they feel big pressure when they have such a hand so want to put it all in. Even if they hit with they AQ they would bet at least half of the pot. So why suddenly he bets on the river his all in?? I was mostly scared of AQ but it didn t make sense his whole play. It look the whole way like he was drawing and why would he suddenly represent a huge hand. Because his all in represents a huge hand. I know sometimes I will be wrong in some cases but I still think that sometimes I have to believe my conclusions against players who are not capable of bluffing if I think that his play didn t make sense.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      So why suddenly he bets on the river his all in??

      But why don't you think that he already had flush himself? And just wanted you to come along? What about that? :) As you may understand you just beat bluff there, so it's a strong hand or just bluff.
    • HansTheGreat
      HansTheGreat
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.02.2010 Posts: 3,807
      I do agree. But let s be honest I think it is hard to put somebody on a flush right away. As it happens I think 4 out of 100 cases I think. So you are right either it was a made flush or a bluff just this were a reasonable actions. I decided to go with the bluff as I trust my reads.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by Sikac
      I do agree. But let s be honest I think it is hard to put somebody on a flush right away. As it happens I think 4 out of 100 cases I think. So you are right either it was a made flush or a bluff just this were a reasonable actions. I decided to go with the bluff as I trust my reads.
      Well, then I'd just raise/ship it either on flop on turn. :D If I wanting to play for the stacks than do such hero-calls. We at least protect then from any kind of overcards/FDs as I said. :) How can you ever expect an unknown opponent to bluff there?
    • HansTheGreat
      HansTheGreat
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.02.2010 Posts: 3,807
      I didn t ship it on the turn because I had great odds just to call and just see the river card. I mean if I shoved and he called(which we can t exclude) he still has some outs so I depend on fold equity(his ability to fold the hand) and variance. The odds and avoiding this factors above made a call in my opinion a better play. The other part how can I go for a bluff catcher against an unknown opponent is a question I can t answer. I can just say that I think that any player that isn t a reg has some bluffs in his range. I will be honest just the way that this guy played the hand and my small experience developed a feeling that I could be ahead. My last question is do you have such feelings and should we trust our feelings?
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by Sikac
      I didn t ship it on the turn because I had great odds just to call and just see the river card. I mean if I shoved and he called(which we can t exclude) he still has some outs so I depend on fold equity(his ability to fold the hand) and variance. The odds and avoiding this factors above made a call in my opinion a better play. The other part how can I go for a bluff catcher against an unknown opponent is a question I can t answer. I can just say that I think that any player that isn t a reg has some bluffs in his range. I will be honest just the way that this guy played the hand and my small experience developed a feeling that I could be ahead. My last question is do you have such feelings and should we trust our feelings?
      Try rather to put the opponent on a range than try with your feelings. Usually feelings wont bring you very far but if you get the correct range and you even are ahead vs that range then you know that you doing it correctly. It might not come with few months or so but it will definitely be worth trying to put the opponent on a range and at some point you will realize that you are able to do that and not just play with your instinct vs him. :D