[NL2-NL10] QQ 4bet

    • HansTheGreat
      HansTheGreat
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.02.2010 Posts: 3,808
      Hand converted with online PokerStrategy.com hand converter:

      Play hand

      $0.02/$0.05 No-Limit Hold'em (9 handed)

      Known players:
      MP3:
      $2.24
      CO:
      $6.14
      BU:
      $7.39
      SB (Hero):
      $5.07
      BB:
      $4.00
      UTG1:
      $5.91
      UTG2:
      $3.27
      MP1:
      $8.10
      MP2:
      $4.26


      Preflop: Hero is SB with Q, Q.
      4 folds, MP3 raises to $0.20, CO folds, BU raises to $0.60, Hero raises to $1.57, 3 folds, 2 folds, BU folds, Hero gets uncalled bet back.

      Final Pot: $0.85.

      BU stats:15/13/3bet 3%(highest value on the BU 8%)/239 hands
  • 9 replies
    • luizsilveira
      luizsilveira
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.11.2010 Posts: 2,320
      Interesting spot. Considering he 3bets 8% from button I think you can *still* 3bet here for value.

      Problem is there are too many nits in those full ring games; some people would only 3bet AK/QQ+ (roughly 2,5%). Against this range you don't have any fold equity and you are not doing great in terms of equity as well.

      But if you have some fold equity, and vs. a BTN 3bet you often will, it's already profitable so nice hand (calling out of position with the mp3 still to act if very bad in my opinion).

      Just mind that you can't obviously 4bet/fold there - even if you think you might be behind there is already enough money in the middle to make it a call.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello Sikac,

      I don't like that much your 4bet here. The problem is that of course his 3bet is kinda high. But rather the question is if we really should 4bet here? What do you think that kind of guy is going to continue against us with? At the best it might be for us a coinflip against AK. But even that we ain't gonna see so often. I'd rather prefer to Call his 3bet and reevaluate it on further streets. Since our 4bet is really strong in this case and they both will rarely fold a lot weaker hands.

      Best Regards.
    • luizsilveira
      luizsilveira
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.11.2010 Posts: 2,320
      Hi, Veriz.

      By calling and playing QQ especially out of position, don't we fall in that problem in which we don't get the stack from AK on low boards but still pay off KK+, and at the same time might fold the best hand if a K or A peels and TT/JJ bluffs us?

      And isn't our range totally face up? I mean... 95% of the time when people cold call a 3bet from blinds they have JJ. Then is super easy to play perfectly in position against them whatever trash you 3bet bluffed with...
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by luizsilveira
      Hi, Veriz.

      By calling and playing QQ especially out of position, don't we fall in that problem in which we don't get the stack from AK on low boards but still pay off KK+, and at the same time might fold the best hand if a K or A peels and TT/JJ bluffs us?

      And isn't our range totally face up? I mean... 95% of the time when people cold call a 3bet from blinds they have JJ. Then is super easy to play perfectly in position against them whatever trash you 3bet bluffed with...
      Why should it be faced up? What do you think what kind of hand is going to continue vs our 4bet there? :) Even TT/JJ may fold. At the best we just flip vs AK.
    • luizsilveira
      luizsilveira
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.11.2010 Posts: 2,320
      Originally posted by veriz
      Why should it be faced up?
      Well, what else if your cold calling range there? Would you call AK OOP vs. potentially 2 opponents in a 3bet pot?

      Originally posted by veriz
      What do you think what kind of hand is going to continue vs our 4bet there? :) Even TT/JJ may fold. At the best we just flip vs AK.
      Yup, nothing would continue and we would at best flip. That's why without reads/metagame I would actually rather fold there.

      I think we get into that old problem often: if he is bluffing we either win a small pot or fold the best hand (if he barrels a Kxx or Axx board), and if he has AA/KK we're stacking off in low boards anyway. Plus we will almost never get a big payoff vs. AK/JJ postflop anyway.

      I dunno, I don't have a calling range for 3bets OOP. If I don't have a reason to 4bet (either value or bluff) I rather just fold. In this case with QQ, if I had a reason to 4bet/bluff I'd probably 4bet/call (if that makes sense? Bluffing indeed and then calling for odds vs. range). If not I'd just fold.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Well, what else if your cold calling range there? Would you call AK OOP vs. potentially 2 opponents in a 3bet pot?

      It's NL5 and I doubt that they would ever think even that far. :) So nope, our hand isn't face up here.
    • luizsilveira
      luizsilveira
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.11.2010 Posts: 2,320
      Originally posted by veriz
      Well, what else if your cold calling range there? Would you call AK OOP vs. potentially 2 opponents in a 3bet pot?

      It's NL5 and I doubt that they would ever think even that far. :) So nope, our hand isn't face up here.
      Good point. :f_biggrin:
    • FlashDavin
      FlashDavin
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.10.2011 Posts: 421
      Its so true though. How do you avoid stacking with queens? Normally you'll flop an overpair. If he conti-bets with AK im going to end up all- in anyways which still leaves me exposed to AA or KK.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by FlashDavin
      Its so true though. How do you avoid stacking with queens? Normally you'll flop an overpair. If he conti-bets with AK im going to end up all- in anyways which still leaves me exposed to AA or KK.
      You just take a look at the opponent and if he is a nit you will at the best just get a coinflip with QQ. :) Why should we even play for the stacks then?