Disclosing hole cards

    • muel294
      muel294
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.06.2009 Posts: 1,207
      I was recently playing a NL20 FR cash game on 888 where I played the following hand.


      Pacific Poker - $0.20 NL - Holdem - 8 players
      Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

      MP+1: $20.00
      CO: $52.54
      BTN: $34.63
      SB: $17.86
      Hero (BB): $28.87
      UTG: $8.58
      UTG+1: $1.90
      MP: $20.07

      SB posts SB $0.10, Hero posts BB $0.20

      Pre Flop: ($0.30) Hero has A:diamond: A:spade:

      fold, UTG+1 raises to $1.90 and is all-in, MP calls $1.90, fold, CO calls $1.90, BTN calls $1.90, fold, Hero raises to $7.00, fold, fold, BTN calls $5.10

      Flop: ($19.80, 3 players) 8:club: J:spade: 5:diamond:
      Hero bets $9.90, BTN raises to $27.63, Hero calls $11.97

      Turn: ($63.54, 3 players) T:diamond:

      River: ($63.54, 3 players) 6:club:

      BTN shows K:diamond: K:heart: (One Pair, Kings) (Pre 17%, Flop 9%, Turn 5%)
      Hero shows A:diamond: A:spade: (One Pair, Aces) (Pre 69%, Flop 68%, Turn 64%)
      UTG+1 shows 9:diamond: J:heart: (One Pair, Jacks) (Pre 14%, Flop 23%, Turn 31%)
      Hero wins $9.12
      Hero wins $51.25

      On the flop (before I had bet) MP decides to tell us that he folded a jack (or JJ cant remember for sure) during the hand.

      I found this really annoying and is bad etiquette. It can obviously influence other players decisions in the hand.

      I decided to report this to 888 support, this is my reply:

      Dear yyyy,

      Thank you for contacting us. My name is xxxxx, Member Support Representative and I will gladly assist you with your query today.

      yyyy, I write in order to inform you that each member playing our games is free to choose how to behave during the game, except when following the prestated rules of our site. In this case the member you are talking about disclosed his hand combination of cards due to his own willing and we are not able to do anything about this matter, because as I said each player is free to choose what move to be done.

      We apologize for any inconvenience caused and if you require further assistance in this or any other matter, please feel free to contact us.

      Kind regards,
      xxxxxx


      TBH when sending my e-mail i had expected them not to tolerate this behaviour. It would not be tolerated in a live situation (and to my experience never has) so I was little disappointed to see 888 take this stance.

      Is this standard practice for most clients to allow this? Do you think players should be allowed to announce their hole cards during a hand. Would you have reported it.

      Thanks

      Muel294
  • 6 replies
    • DannyG13
      DannyG13
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.10.2009 Posts: 1,150
      I can understand the frustration if the hand was still live when he stated his hole cards, but in this instance there's no more action after the flop (as everyone's all in on the flop obv), so what he says on the turn has no influence on the hand does it?

      But yeah in an active hand, can't think of anything more annoying. I'd have thought 888 would have taken a firmer stance on this, surely as it can be classed as a form of collusion?
    • muel294
      muel294
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.06.2009 Posts: 1,207
      Originally posted by DannyG13
      I can understand the frustration if the hand was still live when he stated his hole cards, but in this instance there's no more action after the flop (as everyone's all in on the flop obv), so what he says on the turn has no influence on the hand does it?

      But yeah in an active hand, can't think of anything more annoying. I'd have thought 888 would have taken a firmer stance on this, surely as it can be classed as a form of collusion?
      This, I would like to make it clear that he made the comment before I bet the flop. I did let 888 know that I would bring the topic up here to see whether or not this was deemed acceptable. I know it would be almost impossible for 888 to stop people saying what they want, but the offending player at least needs to recieve an e-mail asking them not to do this in future and if they recieve more complaints then action should be taken.
    • Krishjanis
      Krishjanis
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.01.2010 Posts: 977
      I think you are over reacting. He obviously did it because there was no more betting going on and the cards he folded weren't your villain with KK outs. So only thing he did was crush the small stacks chances of sucking out. I'm sure he wouldn't have said what cards he had if there was still betting going on.

      Wut? There is no turn betting!
    • muel294
      muel294
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.06.2009 Posts: 1,207
      @ krish: maybe so, but its not a reason I would stop playing there. Its not like I was raging over it or anything. People can say what they want. I just find it annoying as hell. Its like when someone whines during a hand that they would have made a set or something. I think its just an etiquette thing rather than a rule. I just wanted to see what the general opinion was so i appreciate the response :)

      also I meant flop not turn....my bad
    • Krishjanis
      Krishjanis
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.01.2010 Posts: 977
      Well if you meant flop, then it changes everything by 180 degrees.

      ˙uo buıob buıʇʇǝq ןןıʇs sɐʍ ǝɹǝɥʇ ɟı pɐɥ ǝɥ spɹɐɔ ʇɐɥʍ pıɐs ǝʌɐɥ ʇ,upןnoʍ ǝɥ ǝɹns ɯ,ı ˙ʇno buıʞɔns ɟo sǝɔuɐɥɔ sʞɔɐʇs ןןɐɯs ǝɥʇ ɥsnɹɔ sɐʍ pıp ǝɥ buıɥʇ ʎןuo os ˙sʇno ʞʞ ɥʇıʍ uıɐןןıʌ ɹnoʎ ʇ,uǝɹǝʍ pǝpןoɟ ǝɥ spɹɐɔ ǝɥʇ puɐ uo buıob buıʇʇǝq ǝɹoɯ ou sɐʍ ǝɹǝɥʇ ǝsnɐɔǝq ʇı pıp ʎןsnoıʌqo ǝɥ ˙buıʇɔɐǝɹ ɹǝʌo ǝɹɐ noʎ ʞuıɥʇ ı
    • MatejM47
      MatejM47
      Black
      Joined: 21.01.2010 Posts: 1,193
      You sound like Phill Helmuth always bitching about etiquette. I mean you can say pretty much what ever you like at the poker table. Yeah its bat etiquette but its not against the rules. Its not like he showed his cards thats a whole different story so the fact that he claimed to have folded JJ can't really be taken into account since he might be lying.