[NL2-NL10] AK's worth nothing?

    • jeszkar
      jeszkar
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.10.2011 Posts: 897
      Known players:    
      Hero:
      $2,13
      BU:
      $2,51

      0,01/0,02 No-Limit Hold'em (6 handed)
      Hand recorder used for this poker hand: PokerStrategy.com Elephant 0.105 by www.pokerstrategy.com.

      Preflop: Hero is BB with A:diamond: , K:diamond:
      3 folds, BU raises to $0,06, SB folds, Hero raises to $0,30, BU calls $0,24.

      Flop: ($0,61) 8:heart: , 5:spade: , 4:club: (2 players)
      Hero bets $0,29, BU raises to $2,21 (All-In), Hero folds.

      Final Pot: $3,11

      Maybe I made a too high preflop raise, i miss the button. But I think the post flop was ok.
      (fan fact I get this hand right after an AA and KK wich nobody called)

      An another AK (i don't want to make 2 thread)


      Known players:       
      Hero:
      $2,1
      MP2:
      $2,6

      0,01/0,02 No-Limit Hold'em (9 handed)
      Hand recorder used for this poker hand: PokerStrategy.com Elephant 0.105 by www.pokerstrategy.com.

      Preflop: Hero is SB with A:spade: , K:diamond:
      3 folds, MP2 calls $0,02, 3 folds, Hero raises to $0,10, BB folds, MP2 calls $0,08.

      Flop: ($0,22) 6:club: , 2:diamond: , 2:club: (2 players)
      Hero bets $0,1, MP2 raises to $0,25, Hero folds.

      Final Pot: $0,57

      This player very loose pre-flop but tight after the flop.
      So, again, I'm not sure the AK is a strong hand.
  • 13 replies
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello jeszkar,

      Would be nice if you posted the hands into different threads so we could concentrate on one hand. :)

      Hand #1
      Don't like that much your CB here, most likely if I would be CBetting then I'd still CB a bit bigger than 1/2 pot size bet which may easily induce anything. :D But yeah, we have to Bet/Fold it. Another chance of course if we would know the opponent and he is rather tighter then I might even Check/Fold it right on the flop.

      Hand #2
      Once again you have the same mistake to CB so small. You have do it bigger ~$0,16 would be mine and then most likely just give up the hand as you did.

      Best Regards.
    • jeszkar
      jeszkar
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.10.2011 Posts: 897
      Again, OK, but I still think raise bigger->lost bigger. Like in these situations. I would lost bigger if I raise bigger.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by jeszkar
      Again, OK, but I still think raise bigger->lost bigger. Like in these situations. I would lost bigger if I raise bigger.
      Well, I guess you really have skipped all the articles and are pretty new to poker. :) Bigger CB means better fold equity, smaller CB = induces raises from opponents. CB = Continues Bet.
    • jeszkar
      jeszkar
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.10.2011 Posts: 897
      Neither. I read them (and not once), but I'm not agree with it. CBET is only good if they can fold, but at NL2 they don't fold.
      You said I would be raise bigger but in this situation, if I make larger CBET then I would lost a lot more.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by jeszkar
      Neither. I read them (and not once), but I'm not agree with it. CBET is only good if they can fold, but at NL2 they don't fold.
      You said I would be raise bigger but in this situation, if I make larger CBET then I would lost a lot more.
      Raise bigger where? You can raise bigger on only 2nd hand. On the flop you are Betting.

      And as you said you are reading them a lot then I doubt that if you didn't even know much about if you CB smaller you give good odds. :)

      And the reason you wrote that CB smaller cause you don't want to loose a lot is just horrible, then why do you CB at all? :)
    • jeszkar
      jeszkar
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.10.2011 Posts: 897
      You said at multiplier times, I need raise bigger.

      What Odds? Pot odds? Are they even know what pod odds is? They offten dosen't even know they winning odds, they capable pay two bet with a gunshot, or small pocket pairs.

      Why CB, becaue the articles said I have to. Why they say this? I don't know. If I have something then it's fine, but if I have nothing, then why?

      + About the big CB. The articles also said big pots for big hands. And two overcards definitely not a big hand.
    • ilovemagic
      ilovemagic
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.09.2011 Posts: 1,019
      actually this is an issue ive beeen dealing with myself veriz. I think it's called scared money. You can find it in the articles about different kinds of tilt. I have been on a bit of a downswing recently, with my account being taken advantage of by Bodog, switching over to Pokerstars and starting with $25, when I was at $125 on Bodog..anyways when I C-bet sometimes i make it half pot size on a bad flop instead of 3/4,. why i do this i think is because of being afraid of being raised and having to fold.

      Basically what I'm trying to say here, is you should bet what veriz tells you...because ive seen veriz play and he has won everytime he plays when i watch. He makes big c-bets with his AK on a flop of 3-Q-9 because when he actually has a hand people pay him off because of all the previous betting he has been doing. If veriz only bet at flops he hit, a good player would read that and fold everytime. Now if veriz makes bets at most flops he has the preflop initiative, players who are betting against him have to invest more in a raise to see if he is telling the truth or not......true story ..

      Anyways, another common problem players have is over and underrating their own ability, and the starting hands values. all of these can be corrected if yu just listen to what people who have had success are trying to tell you.

      Best Regards,
      Andrew :f_cool:
    • jeszkar
      jeszkar
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.10.2011 Posts: 897
      I'm sure I don't overrating my ability because I can't make money even with goods card so I know I have not ability at all, no matter how hard I try.

      But I think that there are two situation where are worh C-bet
      1. When you hit the board.
      2. When you think the enemy will fold if the bet.

      Any other situation I just give my money to them. And in 99% 2. will never happen. They won't fold. Not because they are good players (a good player know when he should fold) they sometime make so wrong move what I can't belive.

      EDIT: Oh, and I'm sure he made a lot of money with his play. I don't doubt it. I glad he can make it. (but this also make me a little sad, some people can easily earn they reward while I can't even make 10$ during 2 months).

      But if he used the same strategy then I can image only 2 possible reasons why this strategy doesn't work for me.
      1. He start play at differencel evel where the strategy actualy works.
      OR
      2. Back than the game was completely difference.
    • ilovemagic
      ilovemagic
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.09.2011 Posts: 1,019
      well just keep believing that and you will always be a losing player.

      if you want to become a winner, all the resources are here for you, most of them are just requiring you to listen well and practise these things lets say 100 000 hands at least not 500...before you make hasty judgments on proven strategies.
    • EmanuelC16
      EmanuelC16
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2010 Posts: 13,897
      I made a post a couple of months ago you might find a bit helpful. It's here...
    • jeszkar
      jeszkar
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.10.2011 Posts: 897
      Originally posted by ilovemagic
      well just keep believing that and you will always be a losing player.

      if you want to become a winner, all the resources are here for you, most of them are just requiring you to listen well and practise these things lets say 100 000 hands at least not 500...before you make hasty judgments on proven strategies.
      - I don't get better cards just because I belive.
      - I don't get better board just because I belive.
      - The opponent won't fold just because I belive.

      Also If I see at my statics and I see this pattern: I bet preflop with strong hand, I c-bet and I loss my money. Then I bet preflop with strong hand, I c-bet and I loss my money. Then I bet preflop with strong hand, I c-bet and I loss my money... and so on... and so on.
      And after the twenties situation in row I start to think there is a problem.

      Emanuel: It's a good post I just have problem.
      - "you will lose way more hands than you win."
      Yeah, that's right but no matter how much you lost with these hands. If I lose x ammount of money in lost situations. And I won the same ammount of money (x) when I win, overall I will be in lost at the end of the session.

      The AK more or less a cointoss. It easy to play at pre-flop but after flop the AK can be a big troubble. It can be strong drawning hand but a pair of two is still stronger than a drawning hand.
    • w4terman
      w4terman
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.04.2011 Posts: 757
      the strategy is not working for you cause you are doing it wronge!

      stick to what the articles say and you will see that they are right !

      if you decide to cbet then cbet right!
      right = bet like you have hit the board 2/3 of the pot or 3/4 of the pot is a good size cbet

      betting 1/2 of the pot or less looks to weak and you enduce players to bluff raise you or float you
    • EmanuelC16
      EmanuelC16
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2010 Posts: 13,897
      Originally posted by jeszkar
      Emanuel: It's a good post I just have problem.
      - "you will lose way more hands than you win."
      Yeah, that's right but no matter how much you lost with these hands. If I lose x ammount of money in lost situations. And I won the same ammount of money (x) when I win, overall I will be in lost at the end of the session.
      .
      There you go, you've found the problem. Now check what hands are you losing with. Minimize those losses. Post in the forums, talk to someone that is more experienced. Next, check what hands are winning. Maximize those winnings the same way you work on minimizing losses.

      I like that you don't just believe but you have to go one step further and find out WHY? something works or doesn't because that's the key. You can view it like rock/paper/scissors but with more possibilities. There's no "style" (option) that will get you maximum against anyone else. You adapt to exploit other players to maximize your value and minimize your losses.