[NL2-NL10] Nl10Sh Ak

    • SPeedFANat1c
      SPeedFANat1c
      Gold
      Joined: 04.01.2009 Posts: 5,062
      Grabbed by Holdem Manager
      NL Holdem $0.10(BB) Replayer
      SB ($22.26)
      BB ($1.75)
      CO ($12.10)
      Hero ($12.13)

      Dealt to Hero K:spade: A:diamond:

      CO raises to $0.40, Hero raises to $1.30, fold, fold, CO raises to $12.10 (AI), Hero calls $10.80

      16/11/2, wtsd 40 (25), w$sd 20 (10), 158 hands.

      I think I cannot call a push, cause for our stack sizes, I nned to 47 % equity, and I don't have it very likely.

      3bet/fold would be a waste, so I guess its just a call.

      At first my thinking was - I 3bet to have an agro image and to see how he react to 3bets, so I could maybe 3bet light later. Plus his wtsd looked good for me, I thought he could go to showdown light. But this could be bad luck over this sample for him.
  • 10 replies
    • luizsilveira
      luizsilveira
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.11.2010 Posts: 2,320
      Hi, SPeedFANat1c!

      Don't be too results oriented. You hand is fine considering the positions involved. Of course, if we can avoid coolers the better - and if there was a spot to fold AK against this guy might have been one.

      The fact that he shoved instead of 4betting smaller is worth a note. He could have sizing tells, and/or this could point to the fact that he's never ever bluffing (which at NL10 wouldn't surprise me).

      Anyway, just one remark about your thought process: I think you should do the exact opposite regarding 3bets. Don't 3bet what you think is a marginal hand to "find out how he reacts". Get a hand like suited connectors or a suited ace to find out how he reacts. If he 4bets you just muck, no hard feelings.

      Problem is, when it's your first 3bet after a while his tendency will be to respect it - you don't want respect when you have a good hand! But if you had been 3betting him before, he might as well fight back and start 4betting (or calling) hands like AQ, JJ and worse - hands that he would fold if you were too tight.

      Makes sense?

      edit: oh, and calling could be ok indeed to mix it up and let his dominated Ax and Kx in. If you've been tight for a long time (which means they'll respect your 3bet too much) and you're a bit deep it could indeed be better against a very tight opponent.
    • SPeedFANat1c
      SPeedFANat1c
      Gold
      Joined: 04.01.2009 Posts: 5,062
      Don't be too results oriented. You hand is fine considering the positions involved. Of course, if we can avoid coolers the better - and if there was a spot to fold AK against this guy might have been one.


      OK, but what range you could expect him to have when he stacks off? I need a range where my hand has 47% equity, so it must be wide. I cannot believe that he could stack off too wide, especially not knowing me well yet.

      And for the results - I actually hit a flush and won :) But doesn't matter of course.

      My image was not too nitty, but not too loose also, as I remember. I didn't 3bet bluff him before at least in CO vs BTN.
    • luizsilveira
      luizsilveira
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.11.2010 Posts: 2,320
      Something like this:


             Equity     Win     Tie
      MP2    49.18%  38.86%  10.32% { AKo }
      MP3    50.82%  40.50%  10.32% { TT+, AQs+, AQo+ }


      That's why, without reads NOR image, you can even fold. Because if you don't put AQ there you'll always be in worse shape - even if they are 22+.


             Equity     Win     Tie
      MP2    43.49%  37.96%   5.53% { AKo }
      MP3    56.51%  50.99%   5.53% { 22+, AKs, AKo }


      But it's not horrible equity of course. It would be horrible if his range did not have AK as well. Then you're crushed :(

      For these limits it doesn't matter that much, but the problem with folding in close spots like this is you can't 3bet much since they might catch up that you fold and start 4betting you a bunch, thus making you 3bet much less. Once they realize you're now adapted and 3bet less they can always fold to your nitty 3bet frequency thus never paying your big pairs off.


      And by results I mean putting the $ in behind, not necessarily losing the hand. If you sucked out on him don't worry, the gods of poker will punish you in due time :D
    • SPeedFANat1c
      SPeedFANat1c
      Gold
      Joined: 04.01.2009 Posts: 5,062
      so it means taht is better to call. Of course they could catch up that I don't 3bet with AK, but I can 3bet light and fold, plus3bet/push QQ+. Once they start 4beting light, I can then include AK. But I doubt they will start 4beting light, especially such nit as this guy. I don't think he is stacking off with AQ there, at least without reads. OR he could when he is on tilt, or tired of my 3bets, but in general, I don't think so. I simply don't see too many stack offs with AQ.
    • luizsilveira
      luizsilveira
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.11.2010 Posts: 2,320
      Originally posted by SPeedFANat1c
      so it means taht is better to call. Of course they could catch up that I don't 3bet with AK, but I can 3bet light and fold, plus3bet/push QQ+. Once they start 4beting light, I can then include AK. But I doubt they will start 4beting light, especially such nit as this guy. I don't think he is stacking off with AQ there, at least without reads. OR he could when he is on tilt, or tired of my 3bets, but in general, I don't think so. I simply don't see too many stack offs with AQ.
      True, at NL10 I don't see it much either unless villain is on tilt or both a fish on tilt :P

      And that happens too because the player pool in NL10 is too large to build enough history to make a 4bet/call with AQo a good play.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello SPeedFANat1c,

      Depends what kind of opponents we have on the blind. If they are rather loose then I'd also consider 3bet/Folding rather than flatting and playing it postflop. Especially when we don't have any stats for postflop like CB or anything. :D We just know that he goes to showdown often enough. But the 3bet/Call I don't really like it. The ranges what luizsilveira gave out is just searched to make it +EV Call. :) But I doubt that such an opponent is even going broke so easily, we are still kind of deep. So stick to the plan and just 3bet/Fold it!

      Best Regards.
    • SPeedFANat1c
      SPeedFANat1c
      Gold
      Joined: 04.01.2009 Posts: 5,062
      Depends what kind of opponents we have on the blind. If they are rather loose then I'd also consider 3bet/Folding rather than flatting and playing it postflop.


      Or if they are loose agresive then call and if they reraise - I 4bet it. But even if they are stations - if I flat, and see the flop cheaply. So even in 4way pot, I have position, if I hit then I can get lots of value from those fish, can't I?
    • luizsilveira
      luizsilveira
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.11.2010 Posts: 2,320
      Originally posted by veriz
      [...] The ranges what luizsilveira gave out is just searched to make it +EV Call. :) [...]
      Exactly. Didn't I say that? ?(

      That is the range he would need to be shoving for our call to be (still quite marginally) profitable.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by SPeedFANat1c
      Depends what kind of opponents we have on the blind. If they are rather loose then I'd also consider 3bet/Folding rather than flatting and playing it postflop.


      Or if they are loose agresive then call and if they reraise - I 4bet it. But even if they are stations - if I flat, and see the flop cheaply. So even in 4way pot, I have position, if I hit then I can get lots of value from those fish, can't I?
      And you can as well 4way pay a lot to the fish. :D While thinking "oh he is a fish", he definitely can't have a hand.
    • SPeedFANat1c
      SPeedFANat1c
      Gold
      Joined: 04.01.2009 Posts: 5,062
      And you can as well 4way pay a lot to the fish. While thinking "oh he is a fish", he definitely can't have a hand.


      Might be the case :) But usually always we have to not overplay our hands - its 4way or 2way pot. Of course in 2way pot its easier to know where you are at.