[NL2-NL10] NL25 SSS: 99 from MP

    • ManniXXX
      ManniXXX
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.09.2007 Posts: 707
      Poker Stars, $0.10/$0.25 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 8 Players
      LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

      CO: $27
      BTN: $17.15
      SB: $24.15
      BB: $15
      UTG: $28.20
      UTG+1: $29.45
      MP1: $25.25
      Hero (MP2): $4.65

      Pre-Flop: 9:heart: 9:spade: dealt to Hero (MP2)
      UTG calls $0.25, 2 folds, Hero raises to $1.25, CO folds, BTN calls $1.25, 3 folds

      Flop: ($3.10) 5:spade: K:heart: Q:club: (2 Players)
      Hero bets $3.40 and is All-In, BTN calls $3.40

      Turn: ($9.90) 6:heart: (2 Players - 1 is All-In)

      River: ($9.90) 2:diamond: (2 Players - 1 is All-In)


      This is very similar to my 88 from CO hand located here only this time I pushed :)
      Questions: How important is the texture of the board when making this play? Would an A out there make any differnce? How about 3 overcards?

      A monochrome A K T board would be a bad spot to push right?

      Hmm just realised I had position in the 88 hand but don't here, I think this is significant.
  • 9 replies
    • carusel
      carusel
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.10.2007 Posts: 202
      i think its a good push, you had about potsize left
    • Gremlin68
      Gremlin68
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.08.2006 Posts: 345
      NH.

      You could think about pushing directly preflop kowing yr OOP postflop, first to play anyway, but in this special case you don't know what UTG does. UTG just limping I would assume he will fold against our push.

      If he calls and yr HD yr in position. Yr always OOP if CO or BU calls.

      Against higher PP yr behind anyway and you won't get them out of the hand anyway no matter of pushing pre or postflop.

      But maybe you bring some weaker hands like Ax, Kx etc. to fold that easily could improve on the flop.

      So I think push preflop is an option, but also well played yr way imo.
    • dallievas
      dallievas
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.11.2007 Posts: 822
      I have the same question.I know I should push in this situation (pot is big enough,
      and stack:raise ratio is allowed push here),but in my little practice I ran into AA third time in turn.Maybe you can explain more advanced middle pocket pairs play for
      SSS players.Tx.
    • Gremlin68
      Gremlin68
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.08.2006 Posts: 345
      Originally posted by dallievas
      I have the same question.I know I should push in this situation (pot is big enough,
      and stack:raise ratio is allowed push here),but in my little practice I ran into AA third time in turn.Maybe you can explain more advanced middle pocket pairs play for
      SSS players.Tx.
      I feel with you;) but not a lot to do against without reads as sss beginner. Not using PT and PAH, without you can have a good look at your opp and try to set him on a handrange.

      I will have a look at 3 scenarios against yr raise.

      1) Villain calls yr. raise with a somehow reasonable hand (which does not really exist, because your stack is too small for a bigstack to get odds/implied odds: so let's assume he calls pp 22-JJ, A7s+, A8o+ all stronger hands as QQ,KK,AA he should normally raise.

      Yr. Equity: 62:38 strong enough imo to push

      2) Villain calls your raise with the same range, but is also able to slowplay AA,KK,QQ

      Yr. equity still is 57:43 so also a push for me.

      3) Giving yr opponent a very thight range let's say playing 10% of his strongest hand which means 66+ ATo+ A9s+ KJs+. You still have a coinflip so push is o.k.

      So the more reads you have about yr opponent you can adjust your decision, playing a little with yr. equilator, but as seen there are too many hands you are ahead so not plaing yr 99 is no way.

      Running against AA happens not often enough to make it reasonable to think about lay down yr 99 without any very good read of yr opp. :)
    • dallievas
      dallievas
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.11.2007 Posts: 822
      Thanks Gremlin 68 ,very practical for beginner.
    • Nunki
      Nunki
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.10.2006 Posts: 865
      There is perhaps more value to be had from certain opponents by checking the flop. By so doing you allow BTN the opportunity to bluff/semi-bluff. The problem as played is that your hand has very little equity WHEN YOUR FLOP BET IS CALLED. Open-shoving this flop makes it just too likely that BTN will play his hand perfectly against our holding.

      eg. AJ :club: :club: is an easy shove versus a player whose range is weighted towards PP's in this spot whereas with 88 I prefer a check.
    • ManniXXX
      ManniXXX
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.09.2007 Posts: 707
      Originally posted by Gremlin68
      NH.

      You could think about pushing directly preflop kowing yr OOP postflop, first to play anyway, but in this special case you don't know what UTG does. UTG just limping I would assume he will fold against our push.

      If he calls and yr HD yr in position. Yr always OOP if CO or BU calls.

      Against higher PP yr behind anyway and you won't get them out of the hand anyway no matter of pushing pre or postflop.

      But maybe you bring some weaker hands like Ax, Kx etc. to fold that easily could improve on the flop.

      So I think push preflop is an option, but also well played yr way imo.
      Hmm interesting. Obviously QQ+ call with a push direct preflop but you're right about increased FE. But don't we want villain to call with one overcard? As we have a 65-70% advantage over them. I think I would feel more comfortable with a direct push when I have position on the whole table and not just the limping villain.

      Problem with a flop push, I think, that is only better hands will call. Having said that a Q most likely folds due to represenation of the K with my push.

      @Nunki: I would prefer bet/fold to check/call. We are the preflop aggresor and check/call gives our hand away imo.
    • xylere
      xylere
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.05.2007 Posts: 2,939
      You could think about pushing directly preflop kowing yr OOP postflop, first to play anyway, but in this special case you don't know what UTG does. UTG just limping I would assume he will fold against our push.


      No, push is not an option. In this case UTG will only call with TT+ AK and fold everything else (this also goes for players behind).

      2nd Gremlin's post


      You've assumed that your opponent is calling every hand, while in reality he will fold weak ones and call with a strong ones. And as Nunki pointed out, you will be way behind when called.

      1 ) 22-JJ, A7s+, A8o

      5 K Q rainbow board

      Fold (A7+, A8o, 22-44, 66-99) - 88.97%
      Call (TT, JJ, 55) - 11.03%
      Equity when called - 8.87%

      Now you can calculate EV.

      2) 22+, A7s+, A8o (QQ+ added)

      5 K Q rainbow board

      Fold 81.76%
      Call 18.24%
      Equity when called - 7.17%


      There is perhaps more value to be had from certain opponents by checking the flop. By so doing you allow BTN the opportunity to bluff/semi-bluff. The problem as played is that your hand has very little equity WHEN YOUR FLOP BET IS CALLED. Open-shoving this flop makes it just too likely that BTN will play his hand perfectly against our holding.


      You are certainly correct, but the problem is, we don't know our opponents on NL 25, so push is a standard play here.
    • Gremlin68
      Gremlin68
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.08.2006 Posts: 345
      2nd Gremlin's post


      You've assumed that your opponent is calling every hand, while in reality he will fold weak ones and call with a strong ones. And as Nunki pointed out, you will be way behind when called.


      [QUOTE]


      Oh yes, see my mistake. I don't have to look at the complete range but at the range which would play against my raise. Many thx xylere :)