[NL2-NL10] QQ 3bet minraise

    • w4terman
      w4terman
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.04.2011 Posts: 757
      Party, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 9 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

      MP3: $19.27 (192.7 bb)
      MP2: $10.09 (100.9 bb)
      BB: $8.59 (85.9 bb)
      BTN: $10.94 (109.4 bb)
      MP1: $2.85 (28.5 bb)
      CO: $21.84 (218.4 bb)
      UTG+2: $3.35 (33.5 bb)
      Hero (SB): $10.05 (100.5 bb)
      UTG+1: $5.50 (55 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is SB with Q Q
      3 folds, MP2 raises to $0.40, 3 folds, Hero raises to $1.40, BB folds, MP2 raises to $2.40, Hero calls $1.00

      Flop: ($4.90) 8 4 J (2 players)
      Hero checks, MP2 checks

      Turn: ($4.90) 6 (2 players)
      Hero bets $2.40, MP2 calls $2.40

      River: ($9.70) 4 (2 players)
      Hero checks, MP2 bets $2, Hero calls $2
  • 8 replies
    • HansTheGreat
      HansTheGreat
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.02.2010 Posts: 3,807
      Hello w4terman,

      Well I don t like your 4bet call. You didnt post any stats so against an unknown an being OOP position I m more towards folding the hand. Second if you have even reads it is still the case that you have to decide if you are going broke or fold because calling a 4bet OOP is not a great idea because even if a low flop comes you dont know were you stand.

      As played: With the bet on the turn are you trying to protect against AK? That is the only sense for betting there because I doubt that any worse hand will call against an unknown. So I would rather check and hope for a cheap showdown. On the river you got great odds and probably you were interested in the hand but again what do we beat given the action only bluffs and split if he has QQ.

      Best regards,

      P.S. I evaluated this hand as part of my lesson 6 homework. TY
    • w4terman
      w4terman
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.04.2011 Posts: 757
      thanks sikac!

      well there are 4$ on the pot and only 1 to call... i dont like his min raise for me its AA/KK or crap!

      i also dont like the check on the flop ? how often he is going to check this flop with AA KK ?

      i bet/fold the turn for value and information and he just calls... all his moves are not make that sence for AA or KK hands

      i was in check/calling mode on the river
    • HansTheGreat
      HansTheGreat
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.02.2010 Posts: 3,807
      Originally posted by w4terman
      thanks sikac!

      well there are 4$ on the pot and only 1 to call... i dont like his min raise for me its AA/KK or crap!

      i also dont like the check on the flop ? how often he is going to check this flop with AA KK ?

      i bet/fold the turn for value and information and he just calls... all his moves are not make that sence for AA or KK hands

      i was in check/calling mode on the river
      First of TY for your answer.

      I always follow your and Bgawli s hands because from the hands and from the recorded coachings I can say that you guys have a good knowledge.
      Of course it is easy to judge then to play but I think preflop you did have the correct odds but there is no good flop for you unless you hit a Q. Over cards are horrible but even with a low flop you dont know were you OOP. Well how often is he going to check this is dependent on the opponent. I think checking behind on such a dray bord if you have AA is not that bad to slowplay. Why? Beacuse with your check you can sometimes induces bluff or worse hands to bet on the turn like you did. I don t know if this was the case. But as the say a rational thinking player would take this into account. I understand you bet on the turn for infos aswell call the river. I mean if you decided to call the flop and play it like that on the turn I think you river call is a bluff catcher:

      Board: 8:club: 4:spade: J:diamond:  6:heart:  4:heart:
             Equity     Win     Tie
      UTG    96.88%  93.75%   3.13% { JJ+ }
      UTG+1   3.13%   0.00%   3.13% { QQ }



      Board: 8:club: 4:spade: J:diamond:  6:heart:  4:heart:
             Equity     Win     Tie
      UTG    48.44%  46.88%   1.56% { JJ+, AKs, AKo }
      UTG+1  51.56%  50.00%   1.56% { QQ }


      So only with bluffs you can win the hand. That my opinion but as I said harder to judge then to play.
    • w4terman
      w4terman
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.04.2011 Posts: 757
      truth is that he played the hand bad!

      he represents a big hand and plays it this way!!
      he could easily knock me out of this hand

      if he had bet the flop i was folding if he had raised me at the turn i was folding! even with a bigger preflop raise i was folding

      he had AJ
    • HansTheGreat
      HansTheGreat
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.02.2010 Posts: 3,807
      Originally posted by w4terman
      truth is that he played the hand bad!

      he represents a big hand and plays it this way!!
      he could easily knock me out of this hand

      if he had bet the flop i was folding if he had raised me at the turn i was folding! even with a bigger preflop raise i was folding

      he had AJ
      Well Nice hand then. I mean now you know that he isn t a rational think player. I agree he played it horrible. But without stats or any reads it is hard to judge the hand because here on Pokerstrategy Evaluation always assume the he would have in a 4bet a very nity range. We exclude most of the time without stats or reads bluffs that someone 4bets AJ. I think this the way they teach you. I mean in position it would be a different story. For example I just watched coaching for lesson 6. Gloryne(Veriz) were in the blinds and to limpers already called when they decided to raise with QQ. Suddenly the first limper from UTG1 min 3bet with (stats ~72/~23 from what I saw). I was surprised when Veriz said against such a player just call. The flop was like 553 or something like it rainbow anyway and Veriz said check/ call and when the A come done on the turn A Veriz said check and we are gonna fold to a strong bet but the player bet like 0,02 so he called and on the river came a K I think it was check or just a call of 0,02. My point is here that he played the hand carefully I would went all in already preflop against such a player as I think he could there limp raise with a wide range but still Veriz was ready do give up the hand on the turn to any mediocre bet even in the end the guy had J7s. This way I was refering to that if you post the hand here then you have to expect to be evaluate by rational thinking but what I mostly don t like on your hand is the 4bet call OOP even with the odds 4:1.
      But still will see what Veriz says. GL!
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello w4terman,

      Preflop: Anything you know about the opponent? :) Vs such a raise size it ain't wrong even to Call if we expect him to also maybe 4bet light. But would be trouble to play the hand postflop.

      As played
      Postflop: Depends really on the opponent here as well, we might even get value from worse hands on the river and should Bet ourselves. Since if he ships himself the river then most likely we don't beat much -> could be trapping the flop with Check behind. But as played well, what hands Check the flop and Bet the river still, because the Bet is kind of weak then shouldn't be that huge deal even if you Call, we might even see Jx hands or even TT.

      Best Regards.
    • w4terman
      w4terman
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.04.2011 Posts: 757
      hi veriz i did not understant the last part of your answer!(my english are not that good and i get confused some times !)

      "But as played well, what hands Check the flop and Bet the river still, because the Bet is kind of weak then shouldn't be that huge deal even if you Call, we might even see Jx hands or even TT."

      did i play the hand correct ?

      its ok to bet/fold the turn?

      thank you!
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Sorry, was on a hangover yesterday and I guess that's why I came up with such a sentence. Didn't finish the part fully. But the idea was about if he opponent ships the river, then we had to fold our hand.

      And most likely for the given odds on the river we did play correctly and your thoughts about turn is fine with the Bet/Fold, since if he raises the turn it's gonna be more often a trap.