[NL2-NL10] NL4; ATo from SB against fish limp

    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      IPoker, $0.02/$0.04 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 5 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

      CO: $0.46 (11.5 bb)
      BTN: $4.20 (105 bb)
      Hero (SB): $4 (100 bb)
      BB: $5 (125 bb)
      MP: $4.71 (117.8 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is SB with T A
      MP folds, CO calls $0.04, BTN folds, Hero completes, BB checks

      Flop: ($0.12) 8 7 T (3 players)
      Hero bets $0.08, BB folds, CO calls $0.08

      Turn: ($0.28) Q (2 players)
      Hero bets $0.20, CO folds

      Results: $0.28 pot ($0.01 rake)
      Final Board: 8 7 T Q
      CO mucked and lost (-$0.12 net)
      Hero mucked T A and won $0.27 ($0.15 net)

      Our opponent is a big shortstack fish. Could a raise in this spot be more profitable?

      Also, is my postflop play ok in this hand?
  • 9 replies
    • eXtremeACE
      eXtremeACE
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.02.2011 Posts: 267
      I'd raise just because limp/calling a raise is soo bad move in 6max, I basically lose all respect for anyone who does that..

      Therefore if he limped, and I raised, and he re-raised me I would have no worry playing all in against him (effective stack ~12BB's) because if his hand is that strong, him raising in a first place would be much profitable move and this is usually a characteristic of a bad player..

      Of course, one could argue "maybe he's trapping a monster", but I without a big read I wouldn't worry about that..
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      There was no limp/calling in the hand!

      Anyway, I would like to add another question to this hand:

      What should our raising range be in this spot, and are there any hands that we should be completing with in this spot?
    • eXtremeACE
      eXtremeACE
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.02.2011 Posts: 267
      There was no limp/calling in the hand!


      You didn't understand me, mate. I know it didn't happen. I just wanted to said that if he's a decent player he'd raise (especially being shortstacked) and the way he played it by limping, I assume he's on crap hand. That's why I think it's profitable to raise (he'll fold most of the time I assume) and even be willing to go AI preflop vs him.

      What should our raising range be in this spot, and are there any hands that we should be completing with in this spot?


      That entirely depends on: was there a raise? who open raised? It isn't the same if UTG open raised or BTN open raised.. You also need to see their ATS (Attempt to steal) in the BTN's/CO's case, and how much positionaly aware are they, they more the less good hands you need..

      I'll leave it up to someone else to give you advice for this, because it's usually situation dependent, and I doubt a chart can be made for this. :/
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      You didn't understand me, mate. I know it didn't happen. I just wanted to said that if he's a decent player he'd raise (especially being shortstacked) and the way he played it by limping, I assume he's on crap hand. That's why I think it's profitable to raise (he'll fold most of the time I assume) and even be willing to go AI preflop vs him.


      Yeah, I misunderstood you. Sorry about that.

      That entirely depends on: was there a raise? who open raised? It isn't the same if UTG open raised or BTN open raised..


      I am talking about this particular situation!
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello Avatars91,

      I'd still isolate preflop and raise it up but otherwise as played I don't see much you did wrong there. We have to protect our hand.

      Best Regards.
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      What should my isoraising range be here?

      Are there any hands that I should complete with instead of isoraising?
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      What should my isoraising range be here?
      Poker isn't be default ranges, poker depends always on the opponents stack, on the opponents limping range, our expectations and of course the position of ours. But usually broadways, strong made hands and maybe even some PPs as well like 77+.

      Are there any hands that I should complete with instead of isoraising?

      Well, once again depends on the opponent, opponents stack, how many limpers there are and etc. Usually those hands which ain't far ahead of the opponents limping range like connectors and small PPs. At the same time you don't expect to get much of fold equity postflop.
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      Yeah, It does depend on a lot of factors.

      But this particular situation already has some of the information needed: our opponent is a shortstack, he is a fish (this is rather general information), we are in the SB.

      Any raise commits us against the fish and his range is probably wide. I'm trying to determine the very bottom range with which to make the raise and whether or not in this situation a complete is possible with some weaker hands.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by Avatars91
      Yeah, It does depend on a lot of factors.

      But this particular situation already has some of the information needed: our opponent is a shortstack, he is a fish (this is rather general information), we are in the SB.

      Any raise commits us against the fish and his range is probably wide. I'm trying to determine the very bottom range with which to make the raise and whether or not in this situation a complete is possible with some weaker hands.
      Against CO limping range I'd be even happy to go broke. If he is a fish then lets see, lets assume his VPIP is 50%:

             Equity     Win     Tie
      UTG    59.50%  57.46%   2.05% { ATo }
      UTG+1  40.50%  38.45%   2.05% { 33+, A2s+, K2s+, Q2s+, J4s+, T6s+, 96s+, 86s+, 76s, 65s, A2o+, K5o+, Q7o+, J7o+, T7o+, 98o }

      We can go broke. :)