[NL2-NL10] NL4; SH KQo against CO raise

    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      IPoker, $0.02/$0.04 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

      UTG: $6.43 (160.8 bb)
      MP: $1.24 (31 bb)
      CO: $5.22 (130.5 bb)
      BTN: $4.96 (124 bb)
      Hero (SB): $5 (125 bb)
      BB: $4.08 (102 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is SB with Q K
      2 folds, CO raises to $0.12, BTN folds, Hero calls $0.10, BB folds

      Flop: ($0.28) 3 A K (2 players)
      Hero checks, CO bets $0.25, Hero calls $0.25

      Turn: ($0.78) 9 (2 players)
      Hero checks, CO checks

      River: ($0.78) 2 (2 players)
      Hero checks, CO bets $0.45, Hero calls $0.45

      Results: $1.68 pot ($0.11 rake)
      Final Board: 3 A K 9 2
      CO showed 8 A and won $1.57 ($0.75 net)
      Hero mucked Q K and lost (-$0.82 net)

      My opponent seems to be a good player.
      His stats over a 127 hand sample:
      VP/PFR/AF/3bet 21/19/9.5/6.5

      Is this good blind defense? I didn't want to 3bet in order not to force worse hands out, and I had not 3bet too much before.

      His c-bet seemed unusually big, which is why I called (why would he bet this big with a strong hand?) once he checks behind the turn I think that he either has a medium made hand or nothing, which is why I opt for a c/c on the river, as he probably is not calling with worse too often.
  • 11 replies
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello Avatars91,

      Preflop: Depends really how he plays postflop, how often he CBs, how often he goes to showdown and etc stuff. Might even be safer option to just 3bet here and gain fold equity right away. :)

      As played
      Postflop: I don't like the idea of Calling the river, Calling the flop of course is considerable but I don't really see why we should Call the river when most likely if he wanted to bluff he would have done that on the turn.

      Best Regards.
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      I don't think it is too good to 3bet a hand of this strength here as I'm most likely just isolating myself against a stronger range. (would he call with worse?). When I call, I get into a pot against hands like K9+ Q9+ J9+, for example. I would agree to a lower king 3bet because of our blocker or suited kings, something like that.

      On the flop my opponent probably c-bets very often with all sorts of hands. The c-bet is also big, therefore it doesn't look like too strong a hand.

      I also thought I can call the river because I checked both the turn and river, signalling weakness. And my opponent didn't protect on the turn. Then again he might have gone for a pot control line.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      I don't think it is too good to 3bet a hand of this strength here as I'm most likely just isolating myself against a stronger range. (would he call with worse?). When I call, I get into a pot against hands like K9+ Q9+ J9+, for example. I would agree to a lower king 3bet because of our blocker or suited kings, something like that.

      You have one guy behind you, are you sure that you ain't gonna play against him as well? KQo in multiway pot is really horrible to play. Your point is totally correct but as I expect you to make exactly such mistakes as you did postflop, for that given reason I don't really like your play. You are going to be OOP, you don't even know what to do on specific boards, with just Call and hope to hit you wont play your hand very profitable. You also have to take stabs even if you don't hit at some point.

      On the flop my opponent probably c-bets very often with all sorts of hands. The c-bet is also big, therefore it doesn't look like too strong a hand.

      Well, more often when people CB big they rather have a hand, so I don't agree with you here at all that it's a pattern.

      I also thought I can call the river because I checked both the turn and river, signalling weakness. And my opponent didn't protect on the turn. Then again he might have gone for a pot control line.

      Such opponents who are aggressive and if he really wanted to bluff then as I said he would have done it most likely on the turn. River bet is from his side usually a value-bet which tried to get value from worse on the turn with the Check or even went for pot control.
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      Well, more often when people CB big they rather have a hand


      Can I take your word for it and assume that more often than not a big CB is a made hand on this limit?

      All in all I agree with all you said.

      BUT. If I did know what to do on the flop and if I did make stabs on boards that I didn't hit, would it not be the superior play? I agree that a 3bet here is profitable, of course, but I really do isolate myself against stronger ranges when I do get called.

      Also, do you consider a fold in this spot as an option?
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Can I take your word for it and assume that more often than not a big CB is a made hand on this limit?

      Well, of course it could be opposite but we can't always assume that if he CBs big that it's also a bluff. :) More often I'd assume rather that it's a made hand which tries to get value. Also that might be another reason for me sometimes even just to fold directly being OOP and not knowing how often the opponent CBs. Since you didn't point that out.
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      If I was a better and more experienced player, if I did know what to do on the flop and if I did make stabs on boards that I didn't hit, would calling not be the superior play? I agree that a 3bet here is profitable, of course, but I really do isolate myself against stronger ranges when I do get called.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by Avatars91
      If I was a better and more experienced player, if I did know what to do on the flop and if I did make stabs on boards that I didn't hit, would calling not be the superior play? I agree that a 3bet here is profitable, of course, but I really do isolate myself against stronger ranges when I do get called.
      For example if I would be on the BB then sure why not to just flat and keep weaker Qx/Kx in the hand. But while you even have another opponent behind you and with just Calling in long run you ain't gonna play the hand very profitable. :( Especially with such plays as like donking and etc we wont make it very profitable either. Since donking usually doesn't make sense unless we really don't expect the opponent to CB very often. We have to take Check/Raise spots sometimes, maybe some different lines like Check/Call the flop donk the turn or something similar.

      Since if you really had a made hand then most likely you wouldn't donk the flop but rather let the opponent CB it.
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      You might be surprised, but you just really blew my mind. I didn't realize it matters so much that there is another guy behind us. I just assumed that he would fold very often.

      Thus it would be safe to say that when I i'm in a similar spot I should 3bet?

      Also, would a 3bet against a fish LP raise make sense?
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Thus it would be safe to say that when I i'm in a similar spot I should 3bet?

      Usually it's much easier to play for you the hand and not start overplaying and picking wrong spots postflop. Of course I am not saying that flatting isn't an option there but more often when having behind you isn't the greatest option and give them good odds to hop in the pot as well. Especially being OOP.

      Also, would a 3bet against a fish LP raise make sense?

      With the position it's a bit different. You always have to ask what kind of opponents you have behind you and also what kind of raise size does the opponent have. Do we beat his raising range, by that I mean could the opponent raise with worse Qx/Kx hands? Could our equity be correct. Also what kind of plan do you have for postflop? How often does he CB flop & turn, how often does the opponent go to showdown?
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      Thanks a lot for your help, mate!
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by Avatars91
      Thanks a lot for your help, mate!
      You are welcome. :) Glad to help you out.