[NL2-NL10] NL10 SH JJ vs c/r turn

    • SPeedFANat1c
      SPeedFANat1c
      Gold
      Joined: 04.01.2009 Posts: 5,073
      Grabbed by Holdem Manager
      NL Holdem $0.10(BB) Replayer
      SB ($12.02)
      BB ($11.26)
      Hero ($11.41)
      UTG+1 ($7.42)
      CO ($18.81)
      BTN ($8.92)

      Dealt to Hero J:heart: J:diamond:

      Hero raises to $0.40, fold, fold, fold, SB calls $0.35, fold

      FLOP ($0.90) 4:diamond: J:spade: 5:spade:

      SB bets $0.50, Hero raises to $2.25, SB calls $1.75

      TURN ($5.40) 4:diamond: J:spade: 5:spade: 3:spade:

      SB checks, Hero bets $2.85, SB raises to $5.70, Hero calls $2.85

      RIVER ($16.80) 4:diamond: J:spade: 5:spade: 3:spade: 7:diamond:

      SB bets $3.67 (AI), Hero calls $3.06 (AI)

      65/4/0.3 fold to cbet 63, 91 hand

      I have many outs for FH, but I think the mistake was to call the turn and then call a river. If I have to call river anyway, then its better to ship on turn, because one more spade can kill the action and some lower sets and straigt might fold.
  • 7 replies
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello SPeedFANat1c,

      Well, couple of draws completed on the turn. From what worse hands do you expect to get paid? I'd most likely Check behind on the turn to avoid get Check/Raise since then we most likely have to fold unless we get good odds. :( Not a huge fan of calling here on the river either.

      Best Regards.
    • SPeedFANat1c
      SPeedFANat1c
      Gold
      Joined: 04.01.2009 Posts: 5,073
      Well, couple of draws completed on the turn. From what worse hands do you expect to get paid?

      sets, 2 pairs, 99-TT, slowplayed QQ+ and draws. Sometimes those fish call with unbelievebly weak hands, so I thought I have to bet my top set plud if I am beat I still have outs to FH.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by SPeedFANat1c
      Well, couple of draws completed on the turn. From what worse hands do you expect to get paid?

      sets, 2 pairs, 99-TT, slowplayed QQ+ and draws. Sometimes those fish call with unbelievebly weak hands, so I thought I have to bet my top set plud if I am beat I still have outs to FH.
      If we had like mid-set or something similar. Then we of course could consider 2nd barreling and maybe even get value from those but here it's gonna be not that often the case that we will see a lot worse hands which pay 3 streets. I'd Check behind here.
    • SPeedFANat1c
      SPeedFANat1c
      Gold
      Joined: 04.01.2009 Posts: 5,073
      was rereading the article and what I found accidentally:

      http://www.pokerstrategy.com/strategy/bss/1565/3/

      look at the example 26 :) practically the same situation :)

      Flush and straight draws may have completed, but you could still catch a full house on the river. You also have to protect; your opponents may not have a flush or straight yet, but might have hit a draw for one on the turn. Either you are ahead and protect your hand, or you are behind and still have 10 outs for a full house or four-of-a-kind. You can't play a combination of a strong hand and a strong draw passively. There are too many hands that will call and pay you off, and you will win often enough when you do get called and are behind to make an investment profitable.


      And in the article the opponents are unknown while there we have a huge fish. Also in the article - there are many opponents, so its more likely that some of them have hit.

      So the bet is still good on turn, or the article is bad :)
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      And in the article the opponents are unknown while there we have a huge fish. Also in the article - there are many opponents, so its more likely that some of them have hit.

      On the turn in this article we ain't multiway. And nope I am not saying that, but then again if we are betting then it means we are betting for value = we go broke.

      I see just in those spots where people bet 1/2 pot size they are towards usually draws which try to get it cheaply. Especially after the opponent even calling after our strong raise, what kind of hands do you expect to see? If he has a weak hand he wont pay himself that much anyways, neither 3 streets. But if he has the flush/straight willing to pay on the river too. So do you really think that betting the turn would gain you the maximum value, do we really need to protect on a board which actually already did complete all the draws?
    • SPeedFANat1c
      SPeedFANat1c
      Gold
      Joined: 04.01.2009 Posts: 5,073
      Oh, I just noticed that on flopt it was not a bet, but it was a raise, so it differs more from the example in the article.

      But we are multiway on turn in the article :)

      Turn - Active Players (3): You, BB, BU - Pot: $10.60


      But I guess I'll have to agree with you that betting turn is bad there.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Well, even on the hand in the article I might sometimes prefer to Check behind than Bet. Since as may understand that any competent opponent would never Call your Bet there without having a made hand unless he puts you on a bluff.