Double-or-Nothing Fold any two

    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 8,904
      I have posted some questions like "why on earth does SnGWizard say to fold any two even AA?"

      I finally saw a hand that made it very, very plain.
      Fortunately, I was not the one holding AA

      The SB is a good reg. the BB is actually a reasonable player too.

      Party, $10 Buy-in (300/600 blinds) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 6 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

      CO: 1,860 (3.1 bb)
      Hero (BTN): 2,300 (3.8 bb)
      UTG: 2,690 (4.5 bb)
      BB: 4,340 (7.2 bb)
      SB: 7,850 (13.1 bb)
      MP: 960 (1.6 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is BTN with 9 7
      4 folds, SB raises to 7,850 and is all-in, BB calls 3,740 and is all-in

      Flop: (8,680) 8 4 6 (2 players, 2 are all-in)
      Turn: (8,680) A (2 players, 2 are all-in)
      River: (8,680) 7 (2 players, 2 are all-in)

      Results: 8,680 pot
      Final Board: 8 4 6 A 7
      BB showed A A and lost (-4,340 net)
      SB showed 5 Q and won 8,680 (4,340 net)

      All he had to do was fold his Aces and the shortstack has to go through the blinds -- even if the shorty doubles up once, he can wait it out.

      The SB also should have folded, but I'm glad he did not.

      Now that I've seen this hand, maybe -- just maybe -- I'll be able to fold AA when I need to.
  • 7 replies
    • PamedF
      PamedF
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.02.2011 Posts: 130
      I've folded once, in a similar situation
    • shehanshah
      shehanshah
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.12.2010 Posts: 385
      This shit will happen maybe once in a 100 times. U ready to let that 99 go??? BTW it's just an estimate. I thought it's fity-fifty for some reason where people get paid according to the stacks. So top 5 get paid same amount. Sorry, it's a clear fold here.
    • abhi147
      abhi147
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.08.2011 Posts: 935
      YES let it go
      Cuz its DON so if you have the max chips or the least its the same amount
      And it is not 99 vs 1 time. Even 2 7 has more then 99:1

      Against the shorty id say call any 2 even 27o

      And btw the SB is absolutely correct in pushing any 2 cuz even if he loses he still will hav a decent size chip stack
    • malcolmlinco
      malcolmlinco
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.08.2010 Posts: 239
      yes, in this situation probability to get into money is much smaller with AA than waiting shortstack to bleed out.

      i haven't played many DONs but have been in several games where mid stack makes 'value bet/raise' during bubble and ends knocked out instead of folding and letting shortstack to die.

      ofc your EV line goes up but at the end of a day(tourney) who cares about imaginary line.
    • mizeriq
      mizeriq
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.08.2011 Posts: 18
      AA will lose 15% of the time even if the opponent pushes any two cards, so it's far from 1 in 100.

      There's no point in risking your stack, when you get no benefit in doing so and the opponent's are going to eliminate each other anyway, you have to play extremely passively in DoNs.
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 8,904
      Originally posted by shehanshah
      This shit will happen maybe once in a 100 times. U ready to let that 99 go??? BTW it's just an estimate. I thought it's fity-fifty for some reason where people get paid according to the stacks. So top 5 get paid same amount. Sorry, it's a clear fold here.
      Well, yes it is a clear fold, but it took this hand and a lot of patient explanations by coaches to open my eyes. I had grasped the principle well enough, but it took a concrete example to make it sink in.

      At the level I'm playing (11$), I very frequently see mid stacks commit suicide unnecessarily. If the worst happens, and the shortstack doubles up the BB in this case would still have a near lock on being ITM, since there would then be 3 short stacks, who will all have to pass through the blinds ahead of him.

      Don't forget this is double-or-nothing, not 50-30-20 SnGs
    • CheckBop
      CheckBop
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.11.2010 Posts: 313
      no no no, don't do that .