[NL2-NL10] NL10 TP AJ oop against maniac calling station

    • Phgrinder
      Phgrinder
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.02.2009 Posts: 1,002
      villain stats are 76 hands 89/52/4.5/25 VPIP/PFR/3bet/fold to 3-bet

      fold to 3-bet is only 1 out 4 sample size.

      i don't think he would do that with 4x and the only hand i beat aside from a bluff is A6-A9

      is betting three streets with b/f turn another option? i am oop against a calling station fish and did not want to bloat the pot that's why i checked flop.

      No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (5 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

      BB ($10)
      UTG ($13.14)
      MP ($34.72)
      Button ($10.30)
      Hero (SB) ($10)

      Preflop: Hero is SB with J, A
      1 fold, MP bets $0.20, 1 fold, Hero raises $0.85, 1 fold, MP calls $0.70

      Flop: ($1.90) A, 10, 10 (2 players)
      Hero checks, MP checks

      Turn: ($1.90) 4 (2 players)
      Hero checks, MP bets $1.42, Hero calls $1.42

      River: ($4.74) 3 (2 players)
      Hero checks, MP bets $11.90, Hero ????

      Total pot: $4.74
  • 5 replies
    • luizsilveira
      luizsilveira
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.11.2010 Posts: 2,320
      Originally posted by dwyt84
      [...]
      i don't think he would do that with 4x and the only hand i beat aside from a bluff is A6-A9
      [...]
      Ahn... no. Actually, thanks to the paired T you beat all Ax but AK, AQ and AT. You even beat A4 and A3, as well as 43 (AATTJ > AATT4 > TT44A). Attention there, in NLHE you use the best 5 cards combining board + hole cards.

      So... to be honest the only thing I'd be worried about is Tx.

      Some more reads on him would be best of course, even though 76 is not really much. You didn't tell us how he was doing postflop vs. cbets, or if he was going much to showdown or doing this overbets before (then again, 76 hands is not enough for stats but vs. this kind of opponent observation is much more important).

      That said, I'm not particularly in love with your 3bet pre. Why do you do it with a hand like AJ? It can't be a bluff because you can't expect him to fold better hands. So it has to be for value, as you do (rightfully so) expect him to call with worse. Right?

      Then you say you don't want to bloat the pot out of position against a maniac. Well... that's exactly what you did if your 3bet pre!

      I wouldn't have 3bet there. But since you did, for value as you expect him to call with all sorts of trash, now that you hit a very strong hand (vs. this particular opponent top pair is huge) all you want is to bloat the pot! There are probably many more Ax combos than Tx combos in his range as people play A2 but not T2.

      There is one single reason not to bet the flop, and a very good reason against this opponent: to let him bluff out. So... if we are checking for him to bluff, we can't, ever, check-fold! There is no such thing as pot control to a cheap showdown vs. a maniac, especially you being out of position.

      I think, independently of how to play the hand on individual streets, you need to play your hand as a coherent whole from preflop. If you fold, call or 3bet, why do you do it and what's your plan? If you have that settled out before the flop comes, the following streets will be much easier to play as most of your questions will already have been answered.

      To sum up:
      Preflop: On this hand, I'd have called preflop and probably check/called 3 streets to let him bluff his pants off. I wouldn't 3bet.
      Postflop: since we chose the bluff induce line I'd call river with a hand as strong as ours. This guy is a very bad player, I wouldn't even rule out his shoving some trash like A4 thinking he has a hand like AK beat. Plus, his range is huge and we only lose to AQ and Tx (considering AK he would 4bet pre). I can't be sure he'd bet Tx on the flop, to be honest I feel super suspicious when a maniac slows down... but he can well do that with Ax there afraid that you are the one trapping.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello dwyt84,

      Preflop: Against such an opponent it's even doable to 3bet here for value but the real question is here what kind of opponent is he? What about his 4bet? He might be 4bet maniac then I don't like the 3bet.

      As played
      Postflop: Well, this is an option to turn your hand into bluff-catcher but is he aggressive enough for it? What about AF? If he is rather passive then I'd just Bet myself on the flop and protect from GS/FD. But as played you can fold the river, since he will more often have there a strong made hand, at least Tx more often than a pure bluff. If he wanted to bluff then it would have been most likely already on the flop where we Checked into him. More often such opponents as him they Check behind on the flop with strong hands for us to hit something or induce bets.

      Best Regards.
    • Phgrinder
      Phgrinder
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.02.2009 Posts: 1,002
      well the 3bet was for value and i decided to slow play him for stacks since if i bet 3 streets his only going to call with worse Ax on the river for value and i only get two streets from draws.

      i decided to check and slow play and wanted to pot control and catch a river bluff from him or min raise and let him call with small pp or Ax but the huge river bet forced me to fold. also i was leaning toward a fold instead of a huge hero call and tilt when he shows me the nuts and im forced to quit my session early for badly playing my hand lol

      was this a good line to take instead? had no reads on villain aside from stats.
    • Wriggers
      Wriggers
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.07.2009 Posts: 3,250
      Wait so you were slowplaying and pot controlling at the same time? This makes absolutely no sense i'm afraid :D

      I echo other judges concerns regarding your 3bet, but since we've already done it I just prefer to bet/fold all 3 streets. I doubt he raises Ax at any point in the hand in a 3bet pot, although this is hard to know with no indication of his postflop aggression.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      was this a good line to take instead? had no reads on villain aside from stats.

      If you didn't expect the opponent to bluff then I'd just Bet/Bet/Bet and protect our hand. :)