[NL2-NL10] NL10 SH 69s OOP

    • SPeedFANat1c
      SPeedFANat1c
      Gold
      Joined: 04.01.2009 Posts: 5,066
      Grabbed by Holdem Manager
      NL Holdem $0.10(BB) Replayer
      Hero ($16.98)
      BB ($11.09)
      UTG ($9.13)
      UTG+1 ($10.81)
      CO ($3.34)
      BTN ($16.56)

      Dealt to Hero 6:heart: 9:heart:

      fold, UTG+1 calls $0.10, fold, BTN calls $0.10, Hero calls $0.05, BB raises to $0.50, UTG+1 calls $0.40, BTN calls $0.40, Hero calls $0.40

      FLOP ($2) 7:heart: Q:diamond: 8:heart:

      Hero checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, BTN bets $0.50, Hero calls $0.50, BB folds, UTG+1 folds

      TURN ($3) 7:heart: Q:diamond: 8:heart: A:diamond:

      Hero checks, BTN bets $1.50, Hero calls $1.50

      RIVER ($6) 7:heart: Q:diamond: 8:heart: A:diamond: K:spade:

      Hero checks, BTN bets $4, Hero folds

      BTN wins $5.70

      BTN: 74/3/1.2 230 hands

      BB: reg

      UTG+1: nit

      what do you think, can I call being that deep the raise preflop? I saw the big fish have 160 bb so I wanted so much to take it :)

      On the flop I have real monster, I could raise but, after such fish bets, I doubt I have any fold equity.

      Checked with equilab:

      QQ,88-77,Q8s-Q7s,87s,Q8o-Q7o,87o

      if he has this, then he has 52% equity, so it menas I don't want to get all my deep stack on flop. So only call and hope to hit.
  • 9 replies
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello SPeedFANat1c,

      Preflop: Don't like it at all! Especially when even being deep, if we hit our flush we could easily be against soooooooooooo many better flushes. Snap-fold for me and avoid any further mistakes.

      As played
      Postflop: Check/Raise the flop right away than Check/Call it being OOP. We definitely will gain even fold equity and our hand is strong against any hand. Don't mind if he is even a fish and loose, we have so many outs which we can of course barrel on the turn again.

      Best Regards.
    • SPeedFANat1c
      SPeedFANat1c
      Gold
      Joined: 04.01.2009 Posts: 5,066
      Especially when even being deep, if we hit our flush we could easily be against soooooooooooo many better flushes.


      But you wnat to say not call only in OOP, right? Because the article says in position to call raises IP.

      As we said above, your implied odds increase with the stack sizes. This makes it possible to call 3-bets for set value, which you normally wouldn't be able to do with a regular size stack. This principle applies to weaker starting hands, such as suited connectors, suited one gappers, suited aces, etc., as well. You usually wouldn't directly call a pre-flop raise with these hands unless you were sure to have a good read on your opponent. You can often make a profitable call in position after another opponent cold calls; however, it is rarely profitable to do so out of position.


      But I just thought - this is huge fish. so I can get money even OOP from him, plus there were another players in the pot.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      But you wnat to say not call only in OOP, right? Because the article says in position to call raises IP.

      I'd like to see the article which says to Call 69s. :P Even IP I would strongly consider what kind of skills I have and what kind of opponents I have. So often happens that people just overvalue their 9high flush and play for the stacks and then post the hand and are amazed how they lost to higher flush while being just in cold called pot.

      But I just thought - this is huge fish. so I can get money even OOP from him, plus there were another players in the pot.

      We are OOP and we don't want to Call the turn again while we might not get that great odds anymore there. Just Check/Raise it and build up the pot, gain fold equity and obviously our hand is strong against most of the fish range there. Especially if you are Calling such hands preflop then you have to also take stabs postflop, you wont play by such a play as Call/Call/Call line very profitable in long run, especially being OOP.
    • SPeedFANat1c
      SPeedFANat1c
      Gold
      Joined: 04.01.2009 Posts: 5,066
      I'd like to see the article which says to Call 69s.


      This principle applies to weaker starting hands, such as suited connectors, suited one gappers


      Ok, 69s is not a one gapper. But as I understand not the gap is the probelm, but high card. But then - which hands this article calls suidted connectors? T9s? Still low might be. Ok QJs - but why then it does not say high suited connectors or more more precisely - suited broadways? Thats why I thought I can call a raise with 45s while being deep.

      Here is a link to this article if you are interested: http://www.pokerstrategy.com/strategy/bss/1588/1/

      Or the article should be fixed? Cause whats the point to read if this is wrong what you have read :)
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Yes, gap is the problem. The further the gap the harder it's hit for you. Neither your 1card straight will be good over and you may easily overplay it. And you didn't Call with 45s right here as we see. :P

      And why should be this article fixed?
    • SPeedFANat1c
      SPeedFANat1c
      Gold
      Joined: 04.01.2009 Posts: 5,066
      Originally posted by veriz
      Yes, gap is the problem. The further the gap the harder it's hit for you. Neither your 1card straight will be good over and you may easily overplay it. And you didn't Call with 45s right here as we see. :P

      And why should be this article fixed?
      But I understood at first the problem was 9 high because of domination.

      I didn't call the 45s, but in general - this has even lower high card value than 96s - so our flush or straight can be dominated even more often. So if we cannot call raise when being deep with 45s IP because we are too often dominated, then it should write so, thats what I meant :)
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Well, as you may understand. All the articles ain't perfect, there are some mistakes in some spots. :P Have posted myself even few mistakes like equity calculations and ranges which were wrong.
    • SPeedFANat1c
      SPeedFANat1c
      Gold
      Joined: 04.01.2009 Posts: 5,066
      Or maybe call with low SC but try to control the pot then? Or otherwise this should be corrected :) cause in future I might want to read as well plus lots of other players.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by SPeedFANat1c
      Or maybe call with low SC but try to control the pot then? Or otherwise this should be corrected :) cause in future I might want to read as well plus lots of other players.
      Well, as far I understood there should be also something written about pot controlling with those hands, we can't play those pairs anyways very aggressively.