[NL20-NL50] NL50 FR - J9s, semi-bluff FD

    • Faye6891
      Faye6891
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.11.2007 Posts: 1,234
      Titan No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25/$0.50BB (Titan HH Converter by Kreatief)

      SB ($11.25)
      BB ($53.70)
      UTG ($8.75)
      UTG+1 ($12.45)
      UTG+2 ($9.50)
      MP1 ($61.65)
      MP2 ($46.75)
      MP3 ($77.20)
      CO ($10.00)
      Button ($61.92) (Hero)

      Preflop: Hero is Button with 9:heart: , J:heart:
      1 folds, UTG+1 calls $0.50, 1 folds, MP1 calls $0.50, MP2 raises to $1.00, 2 folds, Hero calls $1.00, 1 folds, BB calls $0.50, UTG+1 calls $0.50, MP1 calls $0.50,

      Flop: 3:heart: , 6:diamond: , 5:heart: ( $5.75 )
      BB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 bets $3.50, 1 folds, Hero raises to $13.75, 2 folds, MP1 calls $10.25,

      Turn: K:heart: ( $33.25 )
      MP1 checks, Hero bets $22.00, MP1 raises to $46.90, Hero calls $24.90,

      Is semi-bluffing OK on the flop? Or should I just call? (Or fold?)
  • 11 replies
    • SonicXT
      SonicXT
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.06.2007 Posts: 4,736
      Seems fine by me.
    • chenny8888
      chenny8888
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.10.2007 Posts: 19,324
      looks fine.
    • srohack
      srohack
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.12.2006 Posts: 1,908
      i would call here to induce some calls from the other players
    • punta
      punta
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.02.2008 Posts: 297
      VERY Newbie question - i take it you wanted to take the pot down then and there, because the odds were not there to call $3.50 were they?

      Pot $9.25 - $3.50 to call - should you not fold it?

      paul
    • Thorsten77
      Thorsten77
      Black
      Joined: 28.05.2006 Posts: 12,896
      nh.

      @punta: Faye applied the concept of semi-bluffing. I think there's an article about it. The basic idea is that you bluff, but if you get called you have several outs to improve (and the pot is bigger).
    • srohack
      srohack
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.12.2006 Posts: 1,908
      calling is bad here ?
    • punta
      punta
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.02.2008 Posts: 297
      Originally posted by Thorsten77
      nh.

      @punta: Faye applied the concept of semi-bluffing. I think there's an article about it. The basic idea is that you bluff, but if you get called you have several outs to improve (and the pot is bigger).
      Thanks - a re-raise from villian and you fold then or ???

      Paul
    • Faye6891
      Faye6891
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.11.2007 Posts: 1,234
      Originally posted by punta
      Originally posted by Thorsten77
      nh.

      @punta: Faye applied the concept of semi-bluffing. I think there's an article about it. The basic idea is that you bluff, but if you get called you have several outs to improve (and the pot is bigger).
      Thanks - a re-raise from villian and you fold then or ???

      Paul
      It depends on the size of the reraise and how many players are still in the hand. If we are HU and I have pot odds (or implied) to call his raise, then I'd call, If not then it's a fold IMO.

      Also, if there are other players in the hand who called his reraise, I'd probably fold, they could be drawing to a higher flush and I would be drawing very thin.

      Originally posted by srohack
      calling is bad here?
      I'm not sure, you do have implied odds to call, but it's a multiway pot and if someone else is drawing to a higher a flush you're giving them pretty good odds to draw, and if you hit your flush, you're in deep trouble. So I don't like just calling here.
    • Nunki
      Nunki
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.10.2006 Posts: 865
      I'm not too sure what I'd do here. If some players limp/call and the flop comes low then your FE is sometimes very small since the limp-caller either flops a set , OP , pair+OESD and 22 flops a pair+gutshot. Also a good player who donks on a scary board 4-handed often has a hand he wants to protect rather than risk a free card.
    • SonicXT
      SonicXT
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.06.2007 Posts: 4,736
      You have feel what the right decision is, they both got pros and cons.

      Semi bluffing :
      + Possibility of taking it down
      + Nine outs to improve the bluff to a strong hand
      + Improved implied odds if hit
      - More costly if bluff fails and outs are missed

      Calling :
      + Cheaper
      + Odds might even get better if called behind
      - Implied odds are sometimes too low, readability and all.

      All in all, for any play, you can consider a J high flush on a non-paired boards as to be the nuts, i.e. you ain't laying it down and should not ever fear higher flushes even though they very occasionally happen.
      The greatest variables here are your immediate fold equity (for semibluffing) and your estimation of implied odds if you hit your flush (for calling). This purely depends on your reads and feels of your opponent at the table.
      One general things though : your implied odds for a straight draw are higher than they are for a flush draw, so I prefer to call straight draws more often than flush draws which I often semibluff or sometimes even fold (if I know my opponent doesn't give implied odds)
    • Thorsten77
      Thorsten77
      Black
      Joined: 28.05.2006 Posts: 12,896
      SonicXT summarized it pretty well.