[NL2-NL10] NL4; SH: 88 agnst 2 shortstacks

    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      IPoker, $0.02/$0.04 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 3 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

      Hero (SB): $4.17 (104.3 bb)
      BB: $0.95 (23.8 bb)
      BTN: $1.28 (32 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is SB with 8 8
      BTN calls $0.04, Hero raises to $0.20, BB raises to $0.95, BTN raises to $1.28 and is all-in, Hero folds

      Flop: ($2.10) J Q 3 (2 players, 1 is all-in)
      Turn: ($2.10) 2 (2 players, 1 is all-in)
      River: ($2.10) 5 (2 players, 1 is all-in)

      Results: $2.10 pot ($0.14 rake)
      Final Board: J Q 3 2 5
      BB showed K A and won $0.98 ($0.03 net)
      BTN showed K A and won $0.98 ($0.03 net)

      Neither of them seemed to be too good, but we had played just a few hands, so I can't really tell.

      The fold seems very sensible and preferable here. I fail to determine, though, with what range to go broke with here, given the stack sizes and the odds I've been getting.
  • 11 replies
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello Avatars91,

      Nah, folding is most likely fine here. They line already seemed to be kind of interesting. But what's your thought about the raise. Did you plan to go broke against one opponent? Did you raise for value?

      Best Regards.
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      I raised for value against the button because I suspect him of having a loose limping range, the BB might call me as well, because he seems loose and I wouldn't like that though, because then our hand is harder to play postflop, but I suppose he also can call very loosely.

      If BB folds and BTN pushes, I have a tough decision but I'd most likely fold.
      If BB pushes and BTN folds it seems very very close as against most realistic ranges we have at least 40% equity and if I'm not mistaken that is enough.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      If BB folds and BTN pushes, I have a tough decision but I'd most likely fold.

      Then it means it's more profitable for you to just Call and play it postflop for the given odds than Raise/Fold, especially against their stacks.
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      But they might very often just choose the passive line of calling, and I'm definitely ahead of their calling range. Otherwise I just complete and there is an overcard most of the time and we just check/fold.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by Avatars91
      But they might very often just choose the passive line of calling, and I'm definitely ahead of their calling range. Otherwise I just complete and there is an overcard most of the time and we just check/fold.
      Please read your own sentence "and I'm definitely ahead of their calling range" -> which means you also expect to be ahead if they ship which most likely will happen from their stacks.
    • harvbucks
      harvbucks
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.07.2009 Posts: 111
      The fold is correct in my opinion.....u can call the first reship but the second is suicide usually....as it turns out your ahead but that's basically the only situation you can hope for...usually against two all ins your way behind....plus even if you aren't with 88s it's rare that you'll dodge 4 overcards. just one of those hands.
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      Please read your own sentence "and I'm definitely ahead of their calling range" -> which means you also expect to be ahead if they ship which most likely will happen from their stacks.


      Ok, I don't have that much experience yet to determine whether shortstacks shove preflop that often, I'll have to take your advice and agree that this tendency is true.

      By saying that I'm ahead of their calling range at no point do I mean that I'm ahead of their pushing range. I know they can call with much worse hands, but when they push I am not too sure about their range.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      By saying that I'm ahead of their calling range at no point do I mean that I'm ahead of their pushing range. I know they can call with much worse hands, but when they push I am not too sure about their range.

      From those shorties you can very often see almost the same range for pushing. :D Especially when they are playing like VPIP of 50+. :D
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      Thus I should be raising a range with which I can also call a push against these guys?
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by Avatars91
      Thus I should be raising a range with which I can also call a push against these guys?
      Yes, most likely. :)
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      Ok, thanks!