[NL20-NL50] NL50SH : Bottom full house

    • SonicXT
      SonicXT
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.06.2007 Posts: 4,736
      Known players: (for a description of vp$ip, pfr, ats, folded bb, af, wts, wsd or hands click here)
      Hero:
      $62.09
      BB:
      $118.49
      CO:
      $163.12
      BU:
      $50.04

      0.25/0.50 No-Limit Hold'em (4 handed)
      Hand recorder used for this poker hand: Texas Grabem 1.9 by www.pokerstrategy.com.

      Preflop: Hero is SB with 9:heart: , J:heart:
      2 folds, Hero raises to $2.00, BB calls $1.50.

      Flop: ($4.00) 9:club: , 3:club: , 9:diamond: (2 players)
      Hero bets $3, BB calls $3.00.

      Turn: ($10.00) Q:heart: (2 players)
      Hero bets $7, BB calls $7.00.

      River: ($24.00) Q:club: (2 players)
      Hero checks, BB bets $14, Hero calls $14.00.

      Final Pot: $52.00
  • 10 replies
    • Timor83
      Timor83
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.06.2007 Posts: 2,793
      I don't like a c/c here on the river because given the flop-, and turnaction it's unlikely that he has a Q. I'd probably go for the check/raise.
    • SonicXT
      SonicXT
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.06.2007 Posts: 4,736
      Just don't see him calling with a hand worse than mine.
    • chenny8888
      chenny8888
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.10.2007 Posts: 19,324
      i'd go for b/c...

      what hands does a c/r get value against O.O
    • Timor83
      Timor83
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.06.2007 Posts: 2,793
      The flush?
    • chenny8888
      chenny8888
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.10.2007 Posts: 19,324
      arghh, my eyes! c/r does look optimal then, sry.
    • SonicXT
      SonicXT
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.06.2007 Posts: 4,736
      Hmm, I doubt a flush would call, I wouldn't with my flush at least and I don't not that many would ?
      I prefer to check/call for that reason.

      Anyway, villain had QJ. Often enough at this limit, they will call a flopbet with overcards and hope to hit one of them :)
    • Timor83
      Timor83
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.06.2007 Posts: 2,793
      The point of the c/r is not that he will call the raise with the flush (though he sometimes might, you never know at these limits). The point is that if you bet here, it will be very transparant to him that, if he has a flush, you'll have at least a 9 and might just fold it, whereas if you check on the river, feigning weakness, you just might induce a bluff or "valuebet" when he has the flush. Check/call sucks because you lose value when ahead and pay him off anyway if you're behind. Thus it's better to either play bet/call or check/raise, where I prefer the latter.
    • SonicXT
      SonicXT
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.06.2007 Posts: 4,736
      Originally posted by Timor83The point of the c/r is not that he will call the raise with the flush (though he sometimes might, you never know at these limits).

      The point is that if you bet here, it will be very transparant to him that, if he has a flush, you'll have at least a 9 and might just fold it,

      ...
      whereas if you check on the river, feigning weakness, you just might induce a bluff or "valuebet" when he has the flush.

      Check/call sucks because you lose value when ahead and pay him off anyway if you're behind. Thus it's better to either play bet/call or check/raise, where I prefer the latter.
      I've broken up your response in 4 parts.
      Let's reiterate what you seem to say.
      If I bet, he'll fold a flush.
      If I check, I might induce a valuebet of a flush.
      So far, I agree.

      And that's why check/call is actually superior in my view.
      For ease's sake, we'll suppose that the only range of villain is a flush or a Q.
      Bet/Call = Get stacked to Q, most likely take down turn pot vs flush
      Check/Raise = Get stacked to Q, take down turn pot vs flush or more if he bet/folds or bet/calls in position, so it is a slightly better option.
      Check/Call = Lost half a stack from a Q, take down turn pot or win a half a stack from a flush. It's the lowest variance option, cuts my possible losses and doesn't lose that much value vs weaker hands. Both check/raise as check/call could also induce a bluff.

      So personally, yes, I lose a little value when ahead, but I also lose less vs a better hand. Bet/call is by far the worst option I think ...
    • Timor83
      Timor83
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.06.2007 Posts: 2,793
      Sorry, I meant bet/fold.
    • Thorsten77
      Thorsten77
      Black
      Joined: 28.05.2006 Posts: 12,896
      I bet/call: many players are too passive to bet scary boards. If he has a flush, he'll typically not fold to a bet as he "paid to draw" and not he got there and doesn't like to fold. However, he may decide to take a free showdown.