Starting Hand Chart - Question

  • 12 replies
    • gadget51
      gadget51
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      Joined: 23.06.2008 Posts: 5,622
      Hi WpgJets, good to see you're questioning things. :)

      I am not an expert coach but in my opinion it's because suited connectors play better in multiway pots because of the odds of hitting our hand and because it may well be a disguised hand when we do hit.

      There is also the problem of raising such a weak hand with somebody already in the pot who may not fold. Hands like this are playable in late positions where we get to see what the others do before we act.

      A more in depth response is needed here. Anyone?


      Regards,

      Mal.
    • ilovemagic
      ilovemagic
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.09.2011 Posts: 1,019
      the reason we fold these hands when in the blinds if everyone folds before us, or there was a raise is because we are going to be playing out of position, and getting bad implied odds to hit our hand against any random player. Not to mention the bad odds we already have (2.2 to 1 odds at best if in a HU pot) to hit our flush or straight or any 2 pair/trips hands as well. So if we only hit a flush or straight 17% of the time, then calling 2 to 1 odds is a bad idea in the long run because we will lose the hand or not get paid when we hit more often then we will.

      The reason why we raise in late position if everyone else folds behind us is because we have a chance of winning the pot before the flop, less of a chance of getting 3-bet out of the pot with less players to act in front of us, and we are playing the hand in position most often. This means we can hit and win a big pot, or win on the flop more often than not with a standard C-bet. If we miss and our opponent donk bets into us, we can fold rather cheaply without investing any more into the hand. We can also check behind our opponents for a cheap draw if he likes to commonly check raise a lot of flops.

      The reason we like to just flat call the blind if one or more players called the blind is because the implied odds become much greater if we hit str8/flush/2 pair on the flop, and our odds for a call are usually 3 or 4 to 1, which is much better then 2.2 to 1 in a heads up pot. also, we dont want to isolate by raising here because there arent many worse hands that will call a raise here.

      If you play suited connectors in position, and know how to extract value from your opponents, you will find a lot of value in these types of hands when given the right situation.
    • gadget51
      gadget51
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      Joined: 23.06.2008 Posts: 5,622
      @ilovemagic, thank you for the detailed help.

      You are magic,

      Mal. :heart:
    • ilovemagic
      ilovemagic
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      Joined: 09.09.2011 Posts: 1,019
      anytime mal!! thats what I would want if i posted a question on here myself ..a nice, detailed answer :)
    • WpgJets
      WpgJets
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      Joined: 13.12.2011 Posts: 34
      Thanks ilovemagic! This has been bothering me since I first saw the chart, but now I understand.

      BTW - I just played the New Player $1500 Freeroll at PartyPoker and came in 17/2954 simply by religiously following the chart (with a couple of exceptions). It does seem to work. =)
    • WpgJets
      WpgJets
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.12.2011 Posts: 34
      PS - Thanks to you as well Mal. I now see that your answer fit as well. I just needed more detail, which you asked for and ilovemagic provided. :P
    • ilovemagic
      ilovemagic
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      Joined: 09.09.2011 Posts: 1,019
      your welcome buddy. that starting hands chart is nice, but it is by no means bible. It is really good for a beginner with no post flop skills but i would definately reccommend loosening up once your post flop skills get better, and the best way to do that is to play cash games. I would also reccomend the push or fold chart , it helps me make most of my decisions when i am short stacked late or early in a tourney.
    • WpgJets
      WpgJets
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.12.2011 Posts: 34
      Originally posted by ilovemagic
      i would definately reccommend loosening up once your post flop skills get better, and the best way to do that is to play cash games.
      Thanks again for the advice. One follow-up question, if I may. When you say "loosen up", are you talking about playing lesser hands than in the BSS Starting Hand Chart?

      I was watching a cash game (not a SnG, not a tournament) on TV (Poker Den: Big Game) and couldn't believe some of the hands that the 'Pros" were going in with. In fact, the guy who was consistantly playng the worst garbage hands (they called him Sammy), and breaking pretty much every rule I've seen so far on pokerstrategy.com was far and away the big winner (so far).

      I could see no rationalle whatsoever for what he was doing, BUT, he WAS the big winner. That's certainly not the type of poker I want to play (it just makes no sense at all), but I recognize that much of what we learn in the beginner articles at pokerstrategy.com, are just that, 'beginner' articles.
    • cpers
      cpers
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      Joined: 17.04.2011 Posts: 563
      When you say "loosen up", are you talking about playing lesser hands than in the BSS Starting Hand Chart?
      It means playing more hands. Like the sammy guy on TV. However this could only be profitable if you have the skill postflop. My suggestion is to stick to the chart for a while, join the beginner's course, only then you could try to loosen up a little bit.
    • gadget51
      gadget51
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.06.2008 Posts: 5,622
      Hi WpgJets,

      We must remember that high stakes players aren't usually new players, so are mostly very very good.
      The reason we see the likes of 'Sammy' playing strange cards in an odd way is because if he played hands from say the Starting Hand Chart, then all the other players would know what he was doing and be able to play against him, they may even tell him what cards he has!

      We at PokerStrategy don't recommend you play like these guys until you are really good at all aspects of the game, as mentioned already by cpers.

      There are many other reasons to stick to the starting hand charts to; and if you would ike to know why and how to use them, or ask questions, then I suggest clicking the link to the beginner's school at the bottom of this post, ok?


      Thank you for the reply cpers, you probably said exactly what I said only better! :f_biggrin:


      Good luck and best regards,

      Mal.
    • WpgJets
      WpgJets
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      Joined: 13.12.2011 Posts: 34
      Thnaks cprs & Gadget. I'll sign up for the Beginner's course Gadget. :s_cool:
    • IngridN
      IngridN
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      Joined: 02.03.2011 Posts: 12,162
      this thread :heart: