[NL2-NL10] Blind defence: nl10 SH AT

    • SPeedFANat1c
      SPeedFANat1c
      Gold
      Joined: 04.01.2009 Posts: 5,071
      Grabbed by Holdem Manager
      NL Holdem $0.10(BB) Replayer
      Hero ($11.23)
      BB ($29.51)
      UTG ($14.22)
      CO ($7.18)
      BTN ($10.17)

      Dealt to Hero T:diamond: A:heart:

      fold, fold, BTN raises to $0.40, fold, BB raises to $1.10, BTN calls $0.70


      BTN: 47/21/1 34 hands

      BB 20/15 reg

      I think I could 3bet for value this hand.
  • 9 replies
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello SPeedFANat1c,

      Well, I wouldn't say for value since we ain't planning to go broke with the hand vs BTN. :) But rather as bluff and which could be done while BTN could easily have a pretty wide stealing range.

      Best Regards.
    • SPeedFANat1c
      SPeedFANat1c
      Gold
      Joined: 04.01.2009 Posts: 5,071
      Well, I wouldn't say for value since we ain't planning to go broke with the hand vs BTN.


      I don't mean I am going broke, but 3bet/fold, and get value from weaker aces or Kx? So thats why I called it or value.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by SPeedFANat1c
      Well, I wouldn't say for value since we ain't planning to go broke with the hand vs BTN.


      I don't mean I am going broke, but 3bet/fold, and get value from weaker aces or Kx? So thats why I called it or value.
      Then it's still as a bluff, ain't it? :) Since you don't plan to go broke.
    • SPeedFANat1c
      SPeedFANat1c
      Gold
      Joined: 04.01.2009 Posts: 5,071
      when we open raise with 77, is it also a bluff? we arent going broke with this. But we ant to get calls from weaker hands. So for the same reason I think there I can say "for value". But if all poker players say that if I 3bet and don't go broke - its a bluff, then I guess I'll have to say like others.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by SPeedFANat1c
      when we open raise with 77, is it also a bluff? we arent going broke with this. But we ant to get calls from weaker hands. So for the same reason I think there I can say "for value". But if all poker players say that if I 3bet and don't go broke - its a bluff, then I guess I'll have to say like others.
      You are talking whole different thing... The same as I would say, poker is the same as basketball. Of course you may raise for value but if you are telling it so then it also means you are planning to go broke. You are raising as bluff since you don't plan to continue. Your hand is too strong to fold, meanwhile could be too weak to just flat and play in multiway pot. Therefore we raise for him to maybe even fold better hands sometimes depending on the opponent.

      I would give the same argument, if I am raising preflop with 72s from BU, I am not doing it for value, am I? :D But I am rather doing it to gain fold equity and steal the blind, every raise has his own purpose.
    • SPeedFANat1c
      SPeedFANat1c
      Gold
      Joined: 04.01.2009 Posts: 5,071
      With 72s we can say its a bluff, because our aim is mainly to get better hands to fold. Still some of the worse might call (65 for example, but of course then we aren't stealing with taht hand. )

      But with AT we cannot make better hands to fold here. AJ will call, PP will call. Ok, maybe sometimes AJ will fold and 22 will fold. But I am not so sure. So thats why I don't say I am bluffing. Bluffs are when we are making better hands to fold, aren't they? :) We mainly make worse hands to fold if we raise with AT, but this does not count as a bluff. And some of the worse hands still might call.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Well, you can easily play for value as well then 72s. :D Since you can hit postflop. The same trolling you are doing.

      Huh? Why do you think he isn't folding AJ/AQ? Why do you think you are doing it for value? You have on the opponent 34 hands? Be real man? You can never-ever assume that you would ever get called by worse here just because he has been playing with those stats so far. At the beginning of the session I sometimes have even crazier stats. Would you also assume that I would Call with hands like AJ/AQ? No I wouldn't. :)
    • SPeedFANat1c
      SPeedFANat1c
      Gold
      Joined: 04.01.2009 Posts: 5,071
      Of course stats may be lieing. But very often if they have such stats, they often are fish (not reg getting lots of good hands). And fish does not fold AQ, AJ often. They call 3bets with K5o someteimes so how can he fold AJ :)
      w
      I mean until I see that he is reg, I don't assume he is reg when he has such stats at the moment.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by SPeedFANat1c
      Of course stats may be lieing. But very often if they have such stats, they often are fish (not reg getting lots of good hands). And fish does not fold AQ, AJ often. They call 3bets with K5o someteimes so how can he fold AJ :)
      w
      I mean until I see that he is reg, I don't assume he is reg when he has such stats at the moment.
      Well, of course if you consider the opponent being capable of calling with such crap as KT/JT/QT or whatsoever then we are doing it for value. But usually against unknown we can never assume that. :( We can't assume that he is folding either any better Ax hands. The main case usually here would be if we are doing it against unknown. :D Then I am not doing it for value but as bluff.