All in Ev Graphs (HEM2)

    • Cagey
      Cagey
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.07.2011 Posts: 99
      I've just started using HEM 2 (apparently I got it free as I bought HEM1 about 4 months before release!), and have been looking at my all in ev graph whilst playing a few heads up sngs...
      It seems to be saying I should be down due to my decisions. I was wondering how they worked this out? as it is heads up, there is no bubble effect? . My biggest ev 'downswing' is going all in with AKo (result of a 4 bet or so when we were quite deep). I got called by A7s and won. however HEM says the chip ev is -605. and the equivalent of almost half a buyin. How does it calculate this? is it based on a calculated range?
      I was wondering if someone could give me an insight to this?
      Thanks and Merry Xmas!
  • 8 replies
    • noisecore
      noisecore
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.04.2010 Posts: 5,221
      HEM calculates ur cEV from 1 tourney then calculates it into $EV and for HUSNG those two should be quite the same.
    • Cagey
      Cagey
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.07.2011 Posts: 99
      Yes, but how is $ev calculated? I just dont understand why an AK all in which gets called by A7 could ever lose you money? (in the long run)
    • fusionpk
      fusionpk
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.01.2010 Posts: 1,691
      the cEV difference is exactly that, the DIFFERENCE doesn't mean it's a losing play, just means ur not expected to win the whole amount of chips, only a % of them chips hence why you 1) run over EV and 2) have a negative cEV difference
    • noisecore
      noisecore
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.04.2010 Posts: 5,221
      as fusion said it's the difference


      For example

      stacks are 1500

      u go all in with AK vs A7

      thats 70 - 30 %

      You win the hand so you get 3000 chips

      But long term you won't win every time you do this so actaually you have won too many chips this hand according to all-in EV. so the difference between the amount of chips you won now and the amount of chips you would actually win according to equity is your EV difference.

      so in your OP you have won the hand and won 3000 chips, that is 605 chips too much according to all-in EV so it says

      hope I'm a bit clear
    • Bigniux
      Bigniux
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.01.2009 Posts: 2,098
      Originally posted by fusionpk
      the cEV difference is exactly that, the DIFFERENCE doesn't mean it's a losing play, just means ur not expected to win the whole amount of chips, only a % of them chips hence why you 1) run over EV and 2) have a negative cEV difference
      Correct, here's an example to illustrate that:

      You and opp both have 1,000 chips. I'll assume that there's no blinds, just to make calculation easier.

      You have AA and your opp has KK, you both go all-in. The pot now is 2,000 chips and you either win or lose 1,000 chips invested. Your equity with AA vs KK is 82%, which means that in long run you get 82% of total pot or 2,000*0.82= 1,640, since you invested 1,000 chips preflop, on average your profit is 1,640 - 1,000 = 640 chips (and that is your cEV of this hand)

      When you win, your actual winnings are 1,000 and your cEV stays the same at 640 chips. "cEV diff" = "cEV" - "actual winnings", in this case it's gonna be 640 - 1000 = -360 chips.

      In case you lose a hand, "cEV diff" = 640 - (-1,000) = +1,640 chips.

      Basically, cEV diff tells you what amount you'll win on average compared to what you have won in a given hand. So when you win a hand, you always win more than you will win on average, so cEV diff is negative.

      Hope it helps :)
    • gsergiul
      gsergiul
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.11.2010 Posts: 234
      You guys are making this too complicated.
      To make this easy.
      AA vs 22
      80% vs 20%
      You win the hand.
      You "sucked out" for 20% of the pot.
    • Cagey
      Cagey
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.07.2011 Posts: 99
      Cheers guys, that has explained it very nicely! Thank you!
    • VladimirN
      VladimirN
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.02.2008 Posts: 438
      There's definitely something wrong with HEM2 EV Line. At least with my trial version.

      I agree with $EV Diff, it calculates it right, but it takes all $EV Diff's from SnG and adds them up into SnG's $EV? Shouldn't it add it up into $EV Diff?

      And then it takes that stat and draws the EV graph, which shouldn't be affected by the actual result of a particular all-in.