[NL2-NL10] NL4; SH: AJs 3bet

    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      IPoker, $0.02/$0.04 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 5 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

      SB: $4 (100 bb)
      BB: $1.66 (41.5 bb)
      MP: $5.27 (131.8 bb)
      CO: $4.69 (117.3 bb)
      Hero (BTN): $13.43 (335.8 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is BTN with A J
      MP folds, CO raises to $0.12, Hero raises to $0.36, 3 folds

      Results: $0.30 pot
      Hero mucked A J and won $0.30 ($0.18 net)

      Initial raiser's stats:
      VP/PFR/Foldto3bet/stealfromCO/CbetFlop/hands 27/25/100/47/71/264
      BB's stats: VP/PFR/3bet/hands 26/20/3.3/85

      Is calling an option? I can find a reason for and a reason against it -

      the initial raiser folds to 3bets very very often and we don't get called by worse too often because of that. Hence we could call to keep his worse hands in play.
      However, the BB is a shortstack and that complicates the situation a bit.
  • 14 replies
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello Avatars91,

      Calling is always an option to keep weaker hands in the play, with hands like AJo it's rather a 3bet than a Call but with suited hand you can easily play even in multiway pot.

      Best Regards.
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      1) So the fact that the BB is a shortstack does not speak against a call preflop
      2) AJo would then be a definite 3bet instead of a call?
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by Avatars91
      1) So the fact that the BB is a shortstack does not speak against a call preflop
      2) AJo would then be a definite 3bet instead of a call?
      Why should it speak against a Call? We still are playing against PFA mainly and AJo would be yes, rather a 3bet.
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      Ok, so if a call is ok in this spot, I must admit that I would find it superior to a 3bet because the initial raiser folds extremely often against 3bets.

      The problem for me would be postflop though - our opponent Cbets somewhere around 70% so more often than not I would have to be prepared to make a move against him since we hit only 30%.

      The question: if the flop misses us and is dry, since I have not posted his CbetTurn stat, would it be ok if I raised his Cbet? I wouldn't float without knowing how often he 2nd barrels.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Depends a lot on the flop and if it's very likely him to hit the flop or not. At some boards we could consider even raising if he has rather higher CB on turn.
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      Since I suspect his range to be wide would you suggest raising his flop Cbet on dry boards only?
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by Avatars91
      Since I suspect his range to be wide would you suggest raising his flop Cbet on dry boards only?
      That again would depend how the opponent play postflop. There is no default action in poker. :)
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      If I tried that out would it be a big mistake / bad approach?
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by Avatars91
      If I tried that out would it be a big mistake / bad approach?
      On those stakes also pretty close since you rarely make any pairs to fold. :) Don't stick too much to the videos you watch on pokerstrategy since they are mainly from higher limits where people are more reasonable but here they even Call with Ax hands and not to talk about any pair. :D
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      On those stakes also pretty close since you rarely make any pairs to fold. Don't stick too much to the videos you watch on pokerstrategy since they are mainly from higher limits where people are more reasonable but here they even Call with Ax hands and not to talk about any pair.


      I would of course look at each individual opponent and only then consider such a move. Don't you think the opponent we are facing in this particular hand seems reasonable enough for us to make such a play?
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by Avatars91
      On those stakes also pretty close since you rarely make any pairs to fold. Don't stick too much to the videos you watch on pokerstrategy since they are mainly from higher limits where people are more reasonable but here they even Call with Ax hands and not to talk about any pair.


      I would of course look at each individual opponent and only then consider such a move. Don't you think the opponent we are facing in this particular hand seems reasonable enough for us to make such a play?
      If my hand is strong enough to play even postflop then I don't really see the reason to pick such a line while we also have a shorty behind us. He wont continue anyways with worse Ax hands so you just going for the fold.
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      then I don't really see the reason to pick such a line while we also have a shorty behind us.


      The shortstack doesn't seem to be the squeezing type so I expect to be HU IP very often.

      He wont continue anyways with worse Ax hands so you just going for the fold.


      3betting seems like a waste of our hand strength as he folds so often. If we call and are HU IP against his weaker range I consider that to be such an advantage that 3betting looks even worse. Since he Cbets a lot, we can make a raise on some boards even and make him fold postflop. I don't see too many reasons why this line / strategy is totally unplayable.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Once again I don't really get your question. Please re-read my 1st evaluation might get answer. You are starting to argue like with my words now from the 1st post. Your words "3betting seems like a waste of our hand strength as he folds so often."
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      I must have misunderstood your previous post, sorry.

      Ok, I sort of got it, I think. It's ok to call (I would even prefer it), but in order to raise his flop Cbet once I miss I have to take a look on some stats, not just the CbetFlop stat.