[NL20-NL50] NL50SH : KK, when to hit the brakes ?

    • SonicXT
      SonicXT
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.06.2007 Posts: 4,736
      Known players: (for a description of vp$ip, pfr, ats, folded bb, af, wts, wsd or hands click here)
      CO:
      $73.79
      BU:
      $157.53
      Hero:
      $98.76
      MP3:
      $54.89
      SB:
      $82.41
      MP2:
      $36.25

      0.25/0.50 No-Limit Hold'em (6 handed)
      Hand recorder used for this poker hand: Texas Grabem 1.9 by www.pokerstrategy.com.

      Preflop: Hero is BB with K:club: , K:spade:
      2 folds, CO raises to $1.00, BU folds, SB raises to $3.50, Hero raises to $10.00, CO folds, SB raises to $28.50, Hero calls $18.50.

      Flop: ($58.00) K:diamond: , Q:spade: , 6:spade: (2 players)
      SB bets $31, Hero raises to $62.00, SB raises to $53.91 (All-In).

      Turn: ($173.91) 5:spade:
      River: ($173.91) 4:heart:


      Final Pot: $173.91

      ---


      Known players: (for a description of vp$ip, pfr, ats, folded bb, af, wts, wsd or hands click here)
      BU:
      $63.63
      MP2:
      $76.13
      MP3:
      $92.94
      Hero:
      $78.20
      SB:
      $11.33
      CO:
      $12.04

      0.25/0.50 No-Limit Hold'em (6 handed)
      Hand recorder used for this poker hand: Texas Grabem 1.9 by www.pokerstrategy.com.

      Preflop: Hero is BB with K:diamond: , K:club:
      MP2 raises to $2.19, MP3 raises to $7.00, 3 folds, Hero raises to $25.00, MP2 folds, MP3 raises to $92.94 (All-In), Hero raises to $78.20 (All-In).

      Flop: ($173.58) 7:spade: , T:diamond: , A:heart:
      Turn: ($173.58) 4:heart:
      River: ($173.58) 2:heart:


      Final Pot: $173.58

      Two identical potsizes, twice at about 150 BB deep.
      Just by posting these hands, you know I was up vs AA twice, so posting results or not isn't too the point now. I was just wondering, because both times, I had a real strong feeling that I was up vs AA and didn't know exactly what to do.
  • 6 replies
    • chenny8888
      chenny8888
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.10.2007 Posts: 19,324
      first hand: WP!

      with this, (vs unknown) i will call the 4bet and get my money in on a non-ace, non-queen board. or if i hit my set of course ;) . this is because we're deep enough to get away from it on bad flops, and also if we 5-bet, villain can play perfectly (cf the Fundamental Theorem of Poker) as he can perfectly narrow our range down to KK+.

      2nd hand:

      i really suggest folding here against unknown. i know it seems wrong, but... lets look at it this way. villains 3bet very rarely on this limit. so therefore his 3bet commands respect. then when you 4bet him, he is aware that his 3bet looked scary and yet you're 4betting him. and then he decides to go and 5bet you. i think his range for this, if he's standard, is very much just KK+, where KK is unlikely as you have KK. so i fold. if you and villain are quite LAG though and have been 3betting each other quite a bit, i call... but otherwise against unknown i fold.

      i know i'll get quite a bit of shit for this, but i really don't believe in hard and fast rules for play, such as "never fold KK preflop"
    • SonicXT
      SonicXT
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.06.2007 Posts: 4,736
      Nah, you're probably right.
      It was more the first hand I have my doubt about, I knew the second wasn't right. I even said it in the chatroom, but couldn't let go :

      BigredXTC700: Just wanted to say, bust table I have played at....
      SonicXT: hmm
      BigredXTC700: BEST !!!!
      SonicXT: you got AA, but ok
      SonicXT is all-In.
      ** Dealing Flop ** [ 7s, Td, Ah ]
      ** Dealing Turn ** [ 4h ]
      ** Dealing River ** [ 2h ]
      SonicXT shows [ Kd, Kc ]a pair of Kings.
      hubdiflagner shows [ Ad, As ]three of a kind, Aces.
      hubdiflagner wins $14.74 USD from the side pot 1 with three of a kind, Aces.
      hubdiflagner wins $155.84 USD from the main pot with three of a kind, Aces.

      Toskala35 : good conversation
      hubdifilanger : not bust
      Toskala35 : nice read
      Toskala35 : are you negreanu ? read well and still call lol
      SonicXT : lol


      So yea ... perhaps I shoulda lay it down, 150BB deep at least.
      For the first one, I'm sure when to go allin then ?
    • Kaitz20
      Kaitz20
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      I´d fold both of them with 150 BB stack.
      It doesn´t matter even if player are lag or tag.
      First hand:
      You 4-bet and SB made 5-bet.
      You can´t call for set value here and I can´t imagine any other hand that would play that way than KK or AA.
      Second hand is similar. I´d call 40-50$ shove, but 92$ is too much.

      Wonder if Thorsten would lay down KK there^^
    • chenny8888
      chenny8888
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.10.2007 Posts: 19,324
      1st hand the 5-bet comes from SB OOP in what is kind of a blind war. i think QQ and AK are within his range in this spot, therefore i'm happy to stack off if these two hands don't suck out on me on the flop
    • Thorsten77
      Thorsten77
      Black
      Joined: 28.05.2006 Posts: 12,896
      I agree with chenny: I think in this spot his range is a little bit wider than only AA/KK. Hence, I'd go with it (and obviously make my set to crack his aces... ;) ).

      In the second hand its more difficult. Without any reads/history, I think folding is fine for 150BB.
    • chenny8888
      chenny8888
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.10.2007 Posts: 19,324
      Originally posted by Thorsten77
      and obviously make my set to crack his aces... ;)
      QFT :D