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[NL20-NL50] NL50SH : Read, thus bluff

    • SonicXT
      Joined: 15.06.2007 Posts: 4,736
      Known players: (for a description of vp$ip, pfr, ats, folded bb, af, wts, wsd or hands click here)

      0.25/0.50 No-Limit Hold'em (5 handed)
      Hand recorder used for this poker hand: Texas Grabem 1.9 by

      Preflop: Hero is BB with J:heart: , K:diamond:
      2 folds, BU calls $0.50, SB calls $0.25, Hero raises to $3.00, BU calls $2.50, SB calls $2.50.

      Flop: ($9.00) 5:diamond: , 4:diamond: , 3:diamond: (3 players)
      SB checks, Hero bets $7, BU calls $7.00, SB calls $7.00.

      Turn: ($30.00) 9:club: (3 players)
      SB checks, Hero bets $25.50, BU folds, SB calls $25.50.

      River: ($81.00) 2:diamond: (2 players)
      SB bets $124.31 (All-In), Hero raises to $14.50 (All-In).

      Final Pot: $219.81

      On that flop, I decided to c-bet with a K high flush draw and see where my opponents would stand. I have a history with both and they both are very, very straightforward players (i.e. raise/protect every made again, call every draw)
      So I knew perfectly where he was at, so was it ok to try to push them out of the pot on the turn ??

      I know it's not a play by the books, but if you're really certain about a villain's hand ... I don't know.
  • 7 replies
    • chenny8888
      Joined: 03.10.2007 Posts: 19,324
      sure, if you feel you have the required fold equity adding to the times where you don't, but have live outs, then do it :) . but i'd prefer betting potsize, or possibly even shoving, the turn as you're committed anyway.
    • SonicXT
      Joined: 15.06.2007 Posts: 4,736
      Shoulda shoved obviously, but i didn't give odds for a draw anyway.
      Just wasn't sure whether I shoulda done anything at all. It's check or shove ...
    • Kaitz20
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      The board is so coordinated that I would check probably on the flop.
      If you decided to bet on the flop, you should really give up the turn. You´re pot committed and betting into two people who called your flop bet.
    • Thorsten77
      Joined: 28.05.2006 Posts: 12,896
      I think betting the flop is fine: the A is not very likely in their range. Hence, we typically draw to the best flush and have 2 overcards, which gives us good equity. The turn is a typical check behind. If you are pretty sure that they have draws, then its ok, but you really need a good read.
    • SonicXT
      Joined: 15.06.2007 Posts: 4,736
      Yea, well, that was my thought as well.
      They'd need a made high flush or A high flush draw to flat call, a low flush, two pair or set to reraise me. As they both call, I could put them on a draw quite easily (little risk of a made flush, but it's possible)
      That's why I went for it at the turn, push them out because they shouldn't have had the odds and given their straight forward play in the past.
      Obviously A:d9 is what he had, so I think I still made the right move (albeit I shoulda pushed turn)
      Right ?
    • Timor83
      Joined: 08.06.2007 Posts: 2,793
      I don't like a turnshove at all, I think he's calling you only when you're at best behind and at worst completely crushed. It's not because you don't give him the proper odds to draw at his A :diamond: flushdraw (which he almost always has here, I don't think he'd draw with the Q :diamond: or lower), that he'll necessarily lay his hand down. If he assumes that he has 15 outs (diamonds, deuces and aces) and puts a slight range of bluffs in your range, he's even almost getting the odds to call.
    • SonicXT
      Joined: 15.06.2007 Posts: 4,736
      Hmm, didn't take the idiot straight draw into account, you're right.