[NL2-NL10] NL4; HU: KQo

    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      IPoker, $0.02/$0.04 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 2 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

      Hero (SB): $4.78 (119.5 bb)
      BB: $4.13 (103.3 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is SB with K Q
      Hero raises to $0.12, BB calls $0.08

      Flop: ($0.24) A 5 8 (2 players)
      BB checks, Hero bets $0.16, BB calls $0.16

      Turn: ($0.56) 4 (2 players)
      BB bets $0.42, Hero folds

      Results: $0.56 pot ($0.03 rake)
      Final Board: A 5 8 4
      Hero mucked K Q and lost (-$0.28 net)
      BB mucked and won $0.53 ($0.25 net)

      Opponent's stats:
      VP/PFR/AF/FoldtoFlopCbet/WTSD/hands
      77/41/1.3/39(18)/9/88

      I thought that a Cbet is good because he definitely can call with worse (worse Kx e.g.) even.
  • 12 replies
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello Avatars91,

      Well, how do you want to win the hand without CBetting. You definitely have to CB and there is no other way to play the hand.

      Best Regards.
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      Doesn't his foldtoCbet stat make us at least consider a check behind?
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by Avatars91
      Doesn't his foldtoCbet stat make us at least consider a check behind?
      Why? Perfect board to CB and represent the Ace.
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      Of course, it's hard to imagine a better board.
      But against this particular opponent is our bet to be considered as a bluff bet, thin value bet, protection bet? A combination of all three? Because I doubt he ever folds better hands. He probably might call with worse for a reason I obviously wouldn't understand.

      I agree that a Cbet is a must, but just theoretically, what are our expectations since we know that he does not fold too often to Cbets?
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by Avatars91
      Of course, it's hard to imagine a better board.
      But against this particular opponent is our bet to be considered as a bluff bet, thin value bet, protection bet? A combination of all three? Because I doubt he ever folds better hands. He probably might call with worse for a reason I obviously wouldn't understand.

      I agree that a Cbet is a must, but just theoretically, what are our expectations since we know that he does not fold too often to Cbets?
      We may even sometimes be ahead with our K high there and of course we can still hit. No way I am going to play only fit/Fold in those spots and when the board is perfect for us to CB.
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      Ok, I fully agree.

      But if we had, say T9s? No point to Cbet there despite the good board, no?
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by Avatars91
      Ok, I fully agree.

      But if we had, say T9s? No point to Cbet there despite the good board, no?
      Why should we CB here? Axx boards are one of the best to CB and the only hands which we may consider Checking behind if we REALLY think that he is calling 99% of CBs is going to be K high. What kind of boards do you want to CB then? :D TTT, 999, TT9 with T9?
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      Ok, I think I understood. Because the board is so dry those 40% don't matter that much since the last times we have been called might have been on wet boards or on boards on which we have had difficulties representing something. What I think I have understood in short is - 40% in general is still a number good enough for us to Cbet a board like this because of its ultimate dryness.

      Axx boards are one of the best to CB and the only hands which we may consider Checking behind if we REALLY think that he is calling 99% of CBs is going to be K high.


      Two questions:
      1) If our opponent is calling 99% of our CBs, why would we ever want to Cbet T high? Be it an Axx board or not.
      2) Why would you suggest checking behind K high on an Axx board if our opponent is calling 99%? That looks like a good thin value spot.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      1) If our opponent is calling 99% of our CBs, why would we ever want to Cbet T high? Be it an Axx board or not.

      I'd like to see such a guy. :) Seems like you are just digging for the worst scenario till I say "yes you can check behind". :D Obviously there are situations where we can consider doing that and which even I would do. In poker can everything happen.

      2) Why would you suggest checking behind K high on an Axx board if our opponent is calling 99%? That looks like a good thin value spot.

      Oh man, it's really hard with you. Just scroll few posts back where you say and ask why can't I Check behind? And now you say the opposite. I guess I will just keep with my one post and that's it. :D You seem to be asking one question over and over again but just from another view.

      One day you might understand why we can Check behind with K high. But a small tip for you, if we expect the opponent being very loose and he is like you said "never folding" and at the same time is passive when he isn't betting anyways without a hand. We can check behind since we will not build up the pot and at the same time we are anyways ahead with our K high and can decide what we do on turn.

      Would strongly advice to read you all the articles as long you are so interested in most of the plays. Don't read them once but read them 2-3x and you will find a lot answers to those things what you asking in most of the threads. Not that I am saying it's bad but you also have to start to think yourself which is needed in poker. :)
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      I'd like to see such a guy. Seems like you are just digging for the worst scenario till I say "yes you can check behind". Obviously there are situations where we can consider doing that and which even I would do. In poker can everything happen.


      I just wanted to clarify that :) yes, I like hypothetical situations way too much, lol.

      One day you might understand why we can Check behind with K high. But a small tip for you, if we expect the opponent being very loose and he is like you said "never folding" and at the same time is passive when he isn't betting anyways without a hand. We can check behind since we will not build up the pot and at the same time we are anyways ahead with our K high and can decide what we do on turn.


      So generally – if the opponent folds often to Cbets and does not bet or call unless he has a made hand we check behind for pot control?

      Would strongly advice to read you all the articles as long you are so interested in most of the plays. Don't read them once but read them 2-3x and you will find a lot answers to those things what you asking in most of the threads. Not that I am saying it's bad but you also have to start to think yourself which is needed in poker.


      Yes, I'm really starting to consider doing that :) any particular ones you would recommend?
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      So generally – if the opponent folds often to Cbets and does not bet or call unless he has a made hand we check behind for pot control?

      If he ain't aggressive then we can as well Check behind with K high yes but that's towards more experienced postflop play and you have to be familiar with the opponent.

      Yes, I'm really starting to consider doing that :) any particular ones you would recommend?

      Just start from the very top silver articles and follow till the end. You will be surprised how much new content you get there. Can as well set a plan when to read what and how much. A lot of people are just too lazy to read them and trying to get it easiest by playing or any other way but it's just bad. Especially if you are rather beginner. Those all material could save you couple of months of long-long play and earn you even more and faster profit.
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      Ok, will do that!
      Thanks alot, Veriz!