Pokerstars vs William hill

    • zippoarg
      zippoarg
      Black
      Joined: 05.07.2007 Posts: 7,612
      Hi, im planning to play in william hill next year, i want to know how sure is this site to keep my bank there and im really worried about the risk that they confiscate my funds or something like that. I read some stories about situations like this but in other skins of ipoker. Im going to rake to obtain de 40k bonus and if something happened when I have 75% of the points completed i going to kill myself. So i want to read some experiences about this room. The another choice is stars but im not convinced with his new rakeback system.
  • 18 replies
    • Xantos
      Xantos
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.09.2005 Posts: 8,897
      Hey zippoarg,

      I think you can consider both sites safe for your bankroll.

      PokerStars is the world's largest poker room & has a very good track record of dealing with their customers.

      William Hill is a huge public listed company with revenues of more than a billion British Pounds:
      en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Hill_(bookmaker)
      Being public listed, they are well regulated and controlled - guess your bankroll can't be much safer.

      With regards to changing their bonus systems: I don't think they will devalue past points. The shitstorm caused by this cost e.g. Mansion poker much more than it brought them.

      If you rake enough (and you might, as you speak of a 40k bonus ;) ), you might also want to consider the Gemstone promo:
      It's a direct value of $150 per $1,500 rake at William Hill in January + February. Plus, if you gather those Gemstones over the full year (you can even switch rooms over the course of the year), you can exchange them at the end of the year for another $150+. Also see:
      http://www.pokerstrategy.com/news/pokerstrategy/Gemstone-VIP-Promotion:-Additional-Bonus-for-Every-7,500-StrategyPoints_54767/

      Best,
      Lutz
    • pleno1
      pleno1
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 19.11.2010 Posts: 5,596
      Hey zippaorg,

      I´d just like to continue on a little from where Xantos left off and perhaps explain why William Hill will have no problems and why other rooms get into situation where players funds are sometimes held.

      Basically all networks have rules which allow certain things and doesnt allow other things, if a room is in breach of these rules then they can be subject to being removed from the network and this sometimes causes problems for the room who now cant pay the players for whatever reason.

      One of the main breaches is not following the rules of what rakeback is allowed. Skins such as William Hill and Titan Poker spend Millions of Pounds every year trying to ensure that their marketing campaigns are successful. Basically for a marketing campaign to be deemed successful it has to brin in new depositing players. They do this buy advertising their product on football teams memorabelia and stadium (BWIN - Real Madrid) sponsoring famous poker players (Sam Trickett, Marvin Reitemier - Titan) and advertising poker in places that they own (William Hill - Shops all round the country) all of the above bring in fish to the network, which of course they are very happy about as depositing players means that the liquidity pool (all of the money in the players bankrolls on the network) is growing and thus is in a healthy state.

      On the contrary other skins on the network, Potraiser for example, may take other methods to aquire players that the network doesnt agree with. Usually this is because they are either canabalizing the traffic or bringing in regular players who withdrawls equal more than their deposits meaning that the liquidity polo shrinks.

      Anyway, PokerStrategy.com takes into consideration the business model behind all of our prospective partners and if you look at our Partner romos, iPoker - William Hill, Ongame - Betfair, Microgaming - Ladbrokes, it is generally the rooms that 1) You see advertising on your televisión, 2) The Rooms you have seen for years, 3) Rooms that will continue to be here for years.

      I hopee this clarifys things a little for you and gibes you the upmost confidente in William Hill.

      Thanks
      Patrick
    • ragney
      ragney
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.08.2010 Posts: 2,417
      Note that the rake you pay on WH is MUCH higher than Stars. Consider playing on the room where you most non-rakeback money comes from.
    • fusionpk
      fusionpk
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.01.2010 Posts: 1,683
      Figure out how much you're going to rake then compare rake & rakeback to workout whats best for you.

      @Xantos: Sure WH are a massive company, but you neglect to mention that they have little to no control over their poker software, the software is iPoker's software, so if you are looking to prove the safety/security then look no further than iPoker imo. Looking at WH makes little sense.

      Anyway, I don't think you can beat stars in terms of security/safety, im not sure about the new rake structure tho.
    • adamall
      adamall
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.02.2009 Posts: 178
      Basically I am wondering if anyone on the site can shed some light on pokerstars effective rake back vs William hill under the new structure (I know that both don't offer actuall rake back, but I mean the money you get from there VIP system.)

      I know that William hill gives better rewards but raked alot more than poker stars in the past.
      I am a micro limits PLO player so the rake and rewards system is crucial to beating the game.

      I have had a look on William hills website and cant find a rake model to do my own comparisons.

      I would like to point out that I am a gold / platinum member on pokerstars currently and it is unlikely that I would reach SN status anytime soon.

      At the end of the day I would like to find out which site will give me the best financial return. It doesn't matter if this is through being raked less and getting next to nothing back (pokerstars), or getting raked more and having a better VIP system (William Hill)

      Thanks for all your help,


      Adz
    • IngridN
      IngridN
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.03.2011 Posts: 12,162
      Hi adamall,

      Passed this onto the market analyst guys who will do some number crunching and get back to you this afternoon.

      Thanks
      Ingrid
    • zippoarg
      zippoarg
      Black
      Joined: 05.07.2007 Posts: 7,612
      Thank you very much for the feedback.
    • Gerovit
      Gerovit
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.01.2011 Posts: 1,308
      @Pleno yes WH doesn't use "other methods" to acquire players :rolleyes:
    • zippoarg
      zippoarg
      Black
      Joined: 05.07.2007 Posts: 7,612
      Do you know how many points i will reach for each dollar of rake in midstakes?
    • adamall
      adamall
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.02.2009 Posts: 178
      Thanks heaps Ingrid. :D
    • pleno1
      pleno1
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 19.11.2010 Posts: 5,596
      Hey Adamall,

      Our comparison we did between Stars/WH was a little off because we were using Stars old VIP system, we have a great tool that we will amend slightly and get back to you, as obviously giving you duff/wrong information is not going to benefit you. If you could give me till the end of the week I promise to blow your mind with lots and lots of numbers.

      Sorry for the wait, but we really didn't know the Stars changes before anybody else.

      Thanks and Happy New Year
      Patrick
    • adamall
      adamall
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.02.2009 Posts: 178
      Thats fine im on holidays until the 6th anyways so i cant really play unti the 8th
    • thazar
      thazar
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.09.2009 Posts: 6,560
      Hi I have merge 2 threads that were about the same subject

      ;)

      Regards

      Thazar
    • adamall
      adamall
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.02.2009 Posts: 178
      How you going with that information Pleno ???
    • DtotheC
      DtotheC
      Headadmin
      Headadmin
      Joined: 23.11.2010 Posts: 259
      Originally posted by adamall
      Basically I am wondering if anyone on the site can shed some light on pokerstars effective rake back vs William hill under the new structure (I know that both don't offer actuall rake back, but I mean the money you get from there VIP system.)

      I know that William hill gives better rewards but raked alot more than poker stars in the past.
      I am a micro limits PLO player so the rake and rewards system is crucial to beating the game.

      I have had a look on William hills website and cant find a rake model to do my own comparisons.

      I would like to point out that I am a gold / platinum member on pokerstars currently and it is unlikely that I would reach SN status anytime soon.

      At the end of the day I would like to find out which site will give me the best financial return. It doesn't matter if this is through being raked less and getting next to nothing back (pokerstars), or getting raked more and having a better VIP system (William Hill)

      Thanks for all your help,


      Adz
      Hey Adz,

      Apologies for the delayed response, I have been thinking about the best way to answer this so that it actually gives you the information you want.

      So for me there are 3 things we need to address; rake, rakeback and table softness.

      Stars has the lowest rake in the industry at nearly every limit and game type. They can afford it after all ;)

      iPoker rake is higher.

      Both now use weighted contributed however, since iPoker havent implemented their "essence-like" model they had planned to and just instead went for weighted contributed.

      So what does this mean to you?

      Well your play style will determine how quickly you generate rake. The amount of rake taken doesnt change when someone changes their rake model, what changes is how it is distributed across the people in the hand. So if you are a LAG player, then you will generate rake faster than a TAG. Obv I know ;)

      So the rake at Stars is lower and will stay lower than iPoker/WH. This means that if you look at your Win-Rate in BB per 100, assuming all of the other variables are the same, then you will earn more playing at stars because they take less rake.

      The tables at Stars are tougher than anywhere else on the webz though. So you will lose some of your WR there, though it is difficult to say if it would offset the difference in rake taken between iPoker & Stars.

      In terms of VIP systems; Stars have a good VIP system if you are going to stay there full time. They do a really good job of rewarding loyal players.

      William Hill on the other hand will give you a higher rakeback % from the outset, but the top limit of rakeback you can get at WH may be a little lower than it would be at Stars (if you stay for the 1 year at Stars).

      So, after all of this rambling, my opinion is as follows:

      PLO is soft everywhere. Maybe a little less so at Stars, but still soft. So I wouldnt worry too much about finding soft games.

      Lower rake = greater profitability for winning players/survivability for losing players.

      The VIP system will be more rewarding in the short term at WH, so for a fast cash injection, I would say WH are better. If you are thinking long term, then I suggest Stars.

      Financially, they are very similar when you balance the difference in rake taken, versus the difference in returns from the VIP system and the slight difference in table softness.

      So yep, either go to Stars for the long haul or go to WH, clear your deposit bonus and maybe get some additional rakeback from the likes of our Gemstone promo etc. You could even then switch to somewhere like Titan, get the FDB again and still get Gemstones etc. A bit of bonus hunting wont do you any harm here I think.

      Hope my advice makes sense mate? :)
    • philiveyfan
      philiveyfan
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.10.2009 Posts: 304
      Originally posted by zippoarg
      Hi, im planning to play in william hill next year, i want to know how sure is this site to keep my bank there and im really worried about the risk that they confiscate my funds or something like that. I read some stories about situations like this but in other skins of ipoker. Im going to rake to obtain de 40k bonus and if something happened when I have 75% of the points completed i going to kill myself. So i want to read some experiences about this room. The another choice is stars but im not convinced with his new rakeback system.

      I been on WilliamHill for about a good 5 years, I deposit with my visa and let me tell you they put my money in my account the next day, they are very good with support I can assure you that you are safe there I have cousins who play there as well not a problem in 5 years. i cashed out 8000 playing live casino got it next day.
    • pleno1
      pleno1
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 19.11.2010 Posts: 5,596
      Thanks for the info Philiveyfan

      :f_cool:
    • adamall
      adamall
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.02.2009 Posts: 178
      So it is 6 of 1 1/2 a dozen of the other.

      Yeh advice makes sense.

      When you say long haul I take it u mean super nova +?

      Because as a platinum player I was getting like 13%rb which wasn't much.

      With fdb I guess WH > all.

      Maybe I will clear that and then move back to stars.