Part of bankroll 'disappeared'

    • ryuuu
      ryuuu
      Gold
      Joined: 06.01.2011 Posts: 57
      So recently I ran hot, very hot in fact and made a lot of $. In the past 2 days I've placed 1st and 2nd in 2 freerolls and won 542.08$ and 486.04$. Total: 1028$.

      Tournament name: Turkey Curry Start date:2011-12-30 20:47 Place:2 Win:$542.08
      Tournament name: Turkey Pie Start date:2011-12-29 18:00 Place:1 Win:$486.04

      Before that, I had won around 42.5$ in SnG's and 8.35$ in Cash Games playing the micros. Total: 50.85$

      Sharkscope filter: SnG only



      http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/805/beznzvuht.jpg/

      Elephant Cash Games:



      http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/440/cashgamewinnings.jpg/

      I've lost money before playing CG's that haven't been tracked by Elephant the 8.35 is adjusted from this.

      The reason I used Elephant and Sharkscope separately is because I only switched to cash games once my trials of HEM and PT3 ran out. I only played SnG before as my bankroll was better suited for them, the reason I switched to cash games was because I thought playing them with software was more profitable than playing SnG's w/o software.

      Together that is 1078.5$
      I keep my William Hill account in euros and they use the following rate:
      1$=0.78 Euros

      Which means I should have 841.50 Euros in my account, but I have 827.05.

      This isn't a lot considering the entire state of the bankroll, but I never intended to use the freeroll winnings to play poker, simply as I couldn't beat higher limits and only intended to transfer to higher limits once I gained the required bankroll by playing the lower limits. This is also how I discovered that money went missing as I wanted to know how much I would have left if I withdrew the freeroll money.

      I contacted WH support and I was told that:

      1/ They found no discrepancies in my poker balance changes
      2/ They cannot provide me with a detailed account of how money went in and out of my poker balance.

      Number 2 especially is a problem for me as using the WH interface and website I cannot get a detailed account of how my poker balance changed. This is because I played way too many SnG's for me to keep track of them one by one as the WH interface allows. I have a good idea of how my cash game balance changed as I didn't put in as much volume. As such:

      1/ It is hard for me to be certain a mistake happened.
      2/ It is almost impossible for me to prove it.

      However the difference in what I should have and what I actually have is so large that it leaves me suspicious of a mistake if 1 or 2 Eurose were missing I would easily disregard it as a currency change mistake or a mathematical mistake on my part.

      Furthemore, the calculations I've done agree with what I knew - I had around 31 Euros in my account before playing the freerolls or the cashgames. I won ~801.84 Euros in the freerolls and I won big in the cash games (relatively) - So it's impossible for me to have 827 Euros this would suggest that I in fact lost money outside of the freerolls.

      The question is what actions should I take? Contacting support didn't result in anything, should I just keep spamming them or is there a better way for me to review my winnings and present them with proof that a mistake must have happened?
  • 8 replies
    • elhh82
      elhh82
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.09.2008 Posts: 6,838
      I think you're underestimating the currency conversion charges. 14 Euros out of 841 is not even 2%

      any bank charges more than that ;)
    • ryuuu
      ryuuu
      Gold
      Joined: 06.01.2011 Posts: 57
      Yes, that was one of my assumptions - that the currency exchange rate is the same for me buying and selling chips. I certainly had 0 problems with this when playing SnG's. There if I decided to buy-in to a SnG for $ in Euros I would get paid out at the same rate the original money was converted.

      I read the terms and conditions and they say this:

      How does the currency conversion work for the Casino?

      When you access our Casino and choose to 'Buy Chips' you are given an exchange rate for that day. You will be paid the same rate for your 'Buy Chips' (entering the Casino) and 'Cash In' (exiting the Casino).

      You cannot lose any money through the exchange rate as you will receive the same currency rate when entering and leaving.

      So I have little doubts that money is leaking there. I would think myself a total fish if I chose to play with a currency exchange rate that would make me a a guaranteed loser.

      However, do you think it's possible that I lost money on the conversions from the freerolls as the above rule doesn't apply there as I am not buying any chips? It seems fairly unlikely but possible...

      (Edit)Btw I didn't withdraw the money or anything, I understand I would have to get charged there if the money was kept in a different currrency.
    • Bigniux
      Bigniux
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.01.2009 Posts: 2,098
      Originally posted by ryuuu
      I read the terms and conditions and they say this:

      How does the currency conversion work for the Casino?
      You should look for Poker T&C, not for Casino games. Different rules for currency conversions may be applied on them.
    • ryuuu
      ryuuu
      Gold
      Joined: 06.01.2011 Posts: 57
      Their general T&C say nothing about poker currency exchange nor does their FAQ, however I am quite sure there is no charge on currency change. I've checked this before when playing SnG's that I was receiving the correct unreduced amount and that we can generalise the Casino ruling for poker as it is part of their 'casino' software.
    • ryuuu
      ryuuu
      Gold
      Joined: 06.01.2011 Posts: 57
      Chat Operator: Luke: Hello, X. How can I be of service?
      X: Hello Luke, I would like to ask, when I win any money in $ in the poker rooms or tournaments, is it converted at the same rate as I would buy the $ for Euros?
      X: I could only find the answer for the casino games when looking at your online FAQ and T&C
      Chat Operator: Luke: That is correct. The funds will be converted to the prevailing conversion rate when you have entered the table.
    • ryuuu
      ryuuu
      Gold
      Joined: 06.01.2011 Posts: 57
      Okay I contacted WH support again, and they went through all my winnings and losses from the 28th to the 30th with me. We found out that the exchange rate has changed significantly from the 28th to the 29th and to the 30th which resulted in me miscalculating the amount of money I won as my Cashier only shows winnings in $ at the time of the tournament/table.

      Message of the day is WH support is win and blast the Greeks for devaluating my monies :P . Also resolving problematic & otherwise frustrating situations is easiest when hungover/drunk :D .
    • elhh82
      elhh82
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.09.2008 Posts: 6,838
      Glad to hear that it's all been sorted ;)
    • UPAY4DINNER
      UPAY4DINNER
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.09.2009 Posts: 21,923
      Originally posted by elhh82
      Glad to hear that it's all been sorted ;)
      +1 and congratulations on winning a bucket load of free money :)

      Happy new year to you all!
      Gary