OMG spite calls, costs me and a fish reg 20% roi each.

    • elhh82
      elhh82
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.09.2008 Posts: 6,838


      This is me vs a bad regular on party's $22s. I always knew he had spite call tendencies so I try to avoid sitting on his right. One day he opened a bunch of tables and I decided to sit down on his left on every single one and that's when the craziness started.

      we played a game of merry go round, sitting up and moving to each other's left for a while, until other players started sitting down.

      Since that day, this guy has been stalking me and sitting down on my left every time I sit down on any table. I insta quit, wait for the table to fill up and pick a seat to his left if possible, if I have to be on his immediate right I rather no play.

      This guy pretty much never folds his BB vs LP shoves or SB. I was expecting maybe 1-2% hits to our rois since it doesn't happen super often, but those sharkscope results are super scary, both of us are losing like 20% thanks to his stupid spite calls. :f_eek:
  • 17 replies
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 9,510
      OK, so how can you exploit this?
      There MUST be a way.
      If you're BOTH losing, who is gaining on the two of you?
    • hunt32
      hunt32
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.02.2008 Posts: 216
      Originally posted by VorpalF2F
      OK, so how can you exploit this?
      There MUST be a way.
      If you're BOTH losing, who is gaining on the two of you?
      all other players... retarded logic of icm

      edit: btw it is probably not costing u 20% roi, because the samplesize of 88 is waaaay too small
    • elhh82
      elhh82
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.09.2008 Posts: 6,838
      Originally posted by hunt32
      Originally posted by VorpalF2F
      OK, so how can you exploit this?
      There MUST be a way.
      If you're BOTH losing, who is gaining on the two of you?
      all other players... retarded logic of icm

      edit: btw it is probably not costing u 20% roi, because the samplesize of 88 is waaaay too small
      Honestly I don't want to find out ;)
    • Gerovit
      Gerovit
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      Joined: 16.01.2011 Posts: 1,308
      Wow some stalker you got there :f_o:
    • lessthanthreee
      lessthanthreee
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.06.2009 Posts: 16,300
      super easy to exploit. just be tight. GG
    • elhh82
      elhh82
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.09.2008 Posts: 6,838
      Originally posted by lessthanthreee
      super easy to exploit. just be tight. GG
      but it's super tough coz the blinds catch up with me more often than not, and I just need to gamble at some point.

      50/100 -> 100/200 -> 200/400 -> 300/600..

      and even if I only push the top end of my ranges, it still sucks very hard when he calls so much when he shouldn't call.
    • maxwi
      maxwi
      Black
      Joined: 23.08.2007 Posts: 451
      Just use the wizard and calculate a profitable range against his loose range and you will win a lot of chips from villain.

      After he calls you with crap and drops out of the tourney a few times he will not want to sit behind you anymore.

      Also he is very likely to drop out of SNGs early because he will loose a lot of allins with his weak hands.

      All you have to do is to adjust and play totally different than the norm because your villain is too.

      Just relax and exploit the crazy player. :f_p:

      Good luck!
    • akrammon
      akrammon
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.05.2009 Posts: 3,142
      you choose seats on PP STTs? lol :D
    • elhh82
      elhh82
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.09.2008 Posts: 6,838
      anyway today he did the same thing, I typed in chat nicely and asked him to go sharkscope himself vs me..

      not sure if he read it but 5 mins later he quit every table. :D
    • lessthanthreee
      lessthanthreee
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.06.2009 Posts: 16,300
      i wouldnt be happy about that. you have a lot of value vs these spewtards
    • elhh82
      elhh82
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.09.2008 Posts: 6,838
      Originally posted by lessthanthreee
      i wouldnt be happy about that. you have a lot of value vs these spewtards
      I understand what you mean. Heactually he plays pretty solid, or too tight most of the time, just spite calls a lot. I'm blinding down so much when I can't push in the BU or SB. Really don't realistically see how much I can tighten up without losing tons of EV as well in the process.

      he's not like calling wide in the sense of just a few % points, but it's ridiculously wide, I have his fold BB vs SB steal at just 34% in my stats, and the hands he's calling with also seem pretty random, not just high card hands in bad spots but sometimes even really junky hands.

      It's really annoying and I would rather just give up the EV of having him in my game rather than have to deal with his bullshit, or have to worry about him in game, just not worth it imo.
    • Targetme
      Targetme
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.05.2009 Posts: 1,888
      sit on his left and dont spit call him
    • lessthanthreee
      lessthanthreee
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.06.2009 Posts: 16,300
      if hes calling 60% where he should be calling 20% then you can still push wider than nash and make a profit. just put some hands in wiz and see
    • elhh82
      elhh82
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.09.2008 Posts: 6,838
      Originally posted by lessthanthreee
      if hes calling 60% where he should be calling 20% then you can still push wider than nash and make a profit. just put some hands in wiz and see
      Alright, I will be looking through hands I played with him, which I suspect aren't that many at all since I've been avoiding him.

      Still really annoying to have him in my games, besides just ev decisions, it really gets me off my groove when I know I have to watch out for him all the time.
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 9,510
      Perhaps if he is calling so very wide he had the idea that you were stealing extremely wide?
    • deVall3y
      deVall3y
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.01.2009 Posts: 554
      Isn't it better to shove into a tight player than a loose player? Even if you play optimally vs both...
      Take an extreme case of being cheapleader on the bubble- there is more value to be gained from a tight player than it is from a loose one. Even if you play optimally vs the loose one, you gain less than you would if he was a tight player
      The only thing you can do is avoid these players, that play decent in early game, and too loose in the late game.
    • pzhon
      pzhon
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.06.2010 Posts: 1,151
      If you know someone is deviating from the Nash equilibrium, and you know exactly how he plays, this does not mean you can exploit him and profit. It is possible that he could be transferring equity from both of you to other players. This is one way collusion is possible in SNGs. It is only in heads up play (and not quite in heads-up cash games due to the rake) that every mistake of your opponent benefits you. If your opponent makes crazy calls against everyone, you will be the beneficiary those times, but if your opponent makes spite calls only against you and/or tries to get position on you, you might lose even more than the rake.

      For example, with 4 equal 8 BB stacks on the bubble, you can push ATC from the small blind, and even knowing this the BB can rarely call. This is quite profitable for you. However, if the BB will call with ATC, it is as though the BB has pushed first. Then you should get out of the way with almost all hands, and some hands change from great pushes to marginally profitable "calls." You are only happy to get action with hands with over 70% equity against the incorrect calls, and there aren't very many of those.

      One way to deal with this situation is to outlast the player. Another is to avoid the player. Another is to try out some strategies like small raises or limps. Some players call widely against pushes, but they also call instead of restealing against small raises, and then they don't often hit the flop hard.