The news about Elephant replacing pokertracker 2

    • flint87
      flint87
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      Joined: 03.06.2007 Posts: 32
      I am very dissapointed. I was waiting to grind out a few more weeks before I could get the licences for pockertracker (and then to upgrade to PT3 for a fair price) and now all that is offered is a alpha version of Elephant! This is not good.

      Personally, I have nothing against the Elephant, but that might be because I can't get it working because of problems of PostgreSQL which has also messed up my PT3 beta X( . I see that in PT there are no such problems!?

      I hope you get everything fixed soon, but at the moment I am utterly dissapointed at the way the things where handled.
  • 45 replies
    • swissmoumout
      swissmoumout
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      Joined: 23.02.2007 Posts: 3,385
      PT2 development was abandoned, which means any relatively big update from a poker room can easily make PT unusable. PT3 is absolutely not ready, it only supports 3 platforms, doesn't have a HUD (well someone is developing one, but it only works for FT at the moment), and it isn't exactly being developed quickly...
      Elephant's dev is very quick, they're releasing updates twice a week or so, and it includes a HUD, hand converter etc. It'll also support all the PS affiliates soon
      BTW if you install PT3 with postgreSQL, elephant can use it for its DB.

      And if you count the "few more weeks of grinding" plus the wait (up to a month) to get the PT licence, if they still sold it, you'll be better off waiting for the Elephant...
    • flint87
      flint87
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      Joined: 03.06.2007 Posts: 32
      I get the drift, but I can't be too certain about Elepahnt being developed like PT. Forexample I know with PT there will be version for Omaha and 7-card stud coming out, can I say the same about elephant?

      Also since I was working toward getting the PT licence it feels like I have failed, which is very negative -EV if I want to upgrade to PT3 once its complete (ie. restricts my choice).

      I would have wished that there would have been like a months notice or something that I could have still grinded out the points to get PT and then have a chance to get the elephant later.
    • SoyCD
      SoyCD
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      Joined: 20.02.2008 Posts: 6,356
      Originally posted by flint87
      I get the drift, but I can't be too certain about Elepahnt being developed like PT. Forexample I know with PT there will be version for Omaha and 7-card stud coming out, can I say the same about elephant?

      Also since I was working toward getting the PT licence it feels like I have failed, which is very negative -EV if I want to upgrade to PT3 once its complete (ie. restricts my choice).

      I would have wished that there would have been like a months notice or something that I could have still grinded out the points to get PT and then have a chance to get the elephant later.
      Hi Flint,

      As swissmoumout stated there were several reasons why we decided to take this step. The unavailablity of further PT2 liscences being one of them. The Elephant software development is in our hands, and we are therefore better to integrate features that our community wants/needs. It will therefore surely be superior to PT in many aspects.

      Concerning Omaha/Stud - with PT2 you needed to buy seperate liscences for these - and PT3 still has a long time of development in front of it. If Omaha continues to rise in popularity I would not be suprised if Elephant will support it sooner or later.

      Best regards,
      SoyCD
    • flint87
      flint87
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      Joined: 03.06.2007 Posts: 32
      Originally posted by SoyCD

      As swissmoumout stated there were several reasons why we decided to take this step. The unavailablity of further PT2 liscences being one of them. The Elephant software development is in our hands, and we are therefore better to integrate features that our community wants/needs. It will therefore surely be superior to PT in many aspects.

      You must have known that PT2 will no longer be available months before? I don't hate your decision to go with Elephant, just how you handled it...


      Originally posted by SoyCD
      Concerning Omaha/Stud - with PT2 you needed to buy seperate liscences for these.
      Which I would get additional discounts on having PT2...


      The reason that I am complaining at all is because you promised a licence of PT2 when I get 2000 points. If you would have posted that Elephant will be taking over a few months ago and given us a date that the 2000 points should be completed of we still wanted PT2 then I would have no problem.
    • slikec
      slikec
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      Joined: 04.02.2008 Posts: 1,155
      The main problem is that licences for PT are out so how can you buy/get sth. that is not for sale? But since you really liek PT that much maybe PS could get one player that gives his licence to you and get elephant. I am sure there will be one "hero".

      Elephant looks better to me so i can't wait to get those 2k points;) If i would have PT i would probably give you my licence to get elephant ;)
    • SoyCD
      SoyCD
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      Joined: 20.02.2008 Posts: 6,356
      Hi Flint,

      Stating that Elephant will replace PT in our 2K point system several months before Elephant is actually far enough into development to know that it is indeed a worthy replacement is quite difficult. As you might have noticed from the Dev Blog, Elephant grew, or rather has been growing very rapidly with new updates several times a week. We therefore waited until we had stable running versions before stating specific dates. I hope this is understandable.

      Best regards,
      SoyCD
    • helemaalnicks
      helemaalnicks
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      Joined: 21.09.2007 Posts: 7,195
      Im sorry, but I dont think the development of PT took a lot of time. I honestly think 90$ is a bit of a rip off, if you consider the fact that it isn't that complicated to write, and it doesn't have the options that elephant will get.

      I have faith in ps.de that they will come with a better program. PT is a must for the online pokerplayer now, and it's about time that that'll change.
    • swissmoumout
      swissmoumout
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      Joined: 23.02.2007 Posts: 3,385
      Originally posted by helemaalnicks
      Im sorry, but I dont think the development of PT took a lot of time. I honestly think 90$ is a bit of a rip off, if you consider the fact that it isn't that complicated to write, and it doesn't have the options that elephant will get.

      I have faith in ps.de that they will come with a better program. PT is a must for the online pokerplayer now, and it's about time that that'll change.
      Well spoken. ^^
      Plus there'll be so much competition (PT, Elephant, pokerEV, PO, HE manager, plus a few other smaller projects) that the prices will have to go down, so if you really want something else than Elephant, you probably won't have to pay too much...

      oh and PT development is long as in, they don't work fast, not "wow there're so many features that it takes a long time" :D so I agree, 90$ (or whatever it is) is too much, especially for lower stakes players
    • anstaendig
      anstaendig
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      Joined: 05.11.2006 Posts: 3,833
      I'm using PokerTracker V2 since about five month and I like it pretty much. I've watched the Elephant videos and I think it'll get a more featured software than PokerTracker V2 is. But I also tested the PokerTracker V3 beta and i think this is also a project with future. I there any chance to get Elephant although I already got a PokerTracker V2 licence?
    • swissmoumout
      swissmoumout
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      Joined: 23.02.2007 Posts: 3,385
      anstaendig: yes, you need to generate 2k points from April 1st (I think) to get the licence, if you already got the PT one. If not, just 2k points lifetime
    • AaronJello
      AaronJello
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      Joined: 26.02.2008 Posts: 12
      From April first??

      Im personally not too fussed about WHICH software is offered as a bonus, but I have only accumulated ~ 500 points (I dont get much time to play atm) and most of which I got before April 1st... does this mean I'm going to have to start over?? If so that kinda sux seeing that I'll have to pretty much scrap the 500 I've already got and start over... Anyone know for sure about this April first deadline??

      Either way, really lookin forward to the software, my notes only go so far lol :evil:

      Thanks :club:
    • swissmoumout
      swissmoumout
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      Joined: 23.02.2007 Posts: 3,385
      Originally posted by AaronJello
      From April first??

      Im personally not too fussed about WHICH software is offered as a bonus, but I have only accumulated ~ 500 points (I dont get much time to play atm) and most of which I got before April 1st... does this mean I'm going to have to start over?? If so that kinda sux seeing that I'll have to pretty much scrap the 500 I've already got and start over... Anyone know for sure about this April first deadline??

      Either way, really lookin forward to the software, my notes only go so far lol :evil:

      Thanks :club:



      anstaendig: yes, you need to generate 2k points from April 1st (I think) to get the licence, if you already got the PT one. If not, just 2k points lifetime
    • slikec
      slikec
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      Joined: 04.02.2008 Posts: 1,155
      Man read carefully previos post:

      Originally posted by swissmoumout
      anstaendig: yes, you need to generate 2k points from April 1st (I think) to get the licence, if you already got the PT one. If not, just 2k points lifetime
      I think he was more than clear.
    • AaronJello
      AaronJello
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      Joined: 26.02.2008 Posts: 12
      lol sorry guys, my bad, thanks :D

      but I dont really appreciate the 2nd comment Slikec, we all make mistakes and Swiss cleared it up fine, no need to jump on the wagon lol
    • swissmoumout
      swissmoumout
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      Joined: 23.02.2007 Posts: 3,385
      Originally posted by AaronJello
      lol sorry guys, my bad, thanks :D

      but I dont really appreciate the 2nd comment Slikec, we all make mistakes and Swiss cleared it up fine, no need to jump on the wagon lol
      pssst... have a look at the timestamp of both posts
    • flint87
      flint87
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      Joined: 03.06.2007 Posts: 32
      Don't get me wrong I'm really waiting for the elephant...

      I think my main point was that the way this was handled restricts my choice especially since 100% of the value of PT2 + Pokerace would be deducted from the purchase of PT3. Then I could always get the Elephant later by earning 2000 points.

      And what is this talk about pockertracker 2 not being available? I can stll buy it from their webshop...
    • swissmoumout
      swissmoumout
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      Joined: 23.02.2007 Posts: 3,385
      it won't be updated, so any bug, or incompatibility with poker sites won't be fixed.
    • Nunki
      Nunki
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      Joined: 25.10.2006 Posts: 865
      Originally posted by flint87
      I am very dissapointed. I was waiting to grind out a few more weeks before I could get the licences for pockertracker (and then to upgrade to PT3 for a fair price) and now all that is offered is a alpha version of Elephant! This is not good.

      I hope you get everything fixed soon, but at the moment I am utterly dissapointed at the way the things where handled.
      It would have been nice to have received some advanced warning as to PS's change in policy with regards to PT licenses. It could have even resulted in a flurry of games played.

      I am utterly disappointed that the article "PokerStrategy Elephant replaces PT/PA" by Soya CD is so blatantly misleading and self-contradictory.


      All words in quotation marks below are Soya CD's.


      "1. PokerTracker2 is no longer sold (lack of availability) "

      1)PokerTracker_2 cost $55 PAHUD $25(links omitted).

      "2. PokerTracker2 will not be developed any further, which could result in poker site's no longer being supported after a software-update (uncertainty)"

      2)PokerTracker_2 could well continue to be supported.PT2 support has an excellent reputation established over many years service.Compare the timestamps in the PT2/Elephant help forums.

      "3. PokerTracker3 has not yet been released and we can't influence the release date (unpredictability)"

      3)No problem, all PT/PAHUD licenses purchased now can be discounted against PT3.

      "4. PokerTracker3 only supports three poker site's and thus less then Elephant already supports (incomplete)."

      4)PT2 supports tons and PT3 is free ATM.

      "5. Elephant supports each partner site (complete)"

      5)Clearly misleading. "In the coming weeks, we will steadily expand the functionality of PokerStrategy Elephant....After that we will integrate support for the fifth poker platform; Mansion Poker. "

      "6. The development of Elephant is in our hands (safety). "

      6)So was Grab'Em and look how that performs when required to retrieve stats.

      "7. Because of this, we can guarantee that in the long term your suggestions on that what you really need, can also be implemented (better functionality)"

      7)Having seen how an ineffective Grab'Em has been left to languish in a buggy state I find this difficult to believe. With regards to functionality, PT3 has a huge range of cusomizable stats/reports, masses of filters and (soon) a HUD to display it all. Is Elephant ever likely to compete? Lets have a look at Elephant's schema to see if comparable functionality is in the realms of feasability. I doubt it somehow.

      "Many of you will wonder why we would change from the perfectly well working PokerTracker to the not yet completed Elephant. Well, there are very good reasons – and it's not to save money!"

      If money is not the issue then why not issue licenses for PT2/PT3.
    • swissmoumout
      swissmoumout
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      Joined: 23.02.2007 Posts: 3,385
      -_-' nunki, are you really that dumb, or this some kind of joke?