[NL20-NL50] NL20 SH KJ this should be fold on river

    • SPeedFANat1c
      SPeedFANat1c
      Gold
      Joined: 04.01.2009 Posts: 5,071
      Grabbed by Holdem Manager
      NL Holdem $0.20(BB) Replayer
      Hero ($20.10)
      BB ($20.30)
      CO ($36.16)
      BTN ($20)

      Dealt to Hero J:spade: K:diamond:

      fold, BTN raises to $0.60, Hero calls $0.50, fold

      FLOP ($1.40) 2:club: J:heart: 7:diamond:

      Hero checks, BTN bets $1, Hero calls $1

      TURN ($3.40) 2:club: J:heart: 7:diamond: 4:club:

      Hero checks, BTN bets $2.40, Hero calls $2.40

      RIVER ($8.20) 2:club: J:heart: 7:diamond: 4:club: 7:heart:

      Hero checks, BTN bets $5.80, Hero calls $5.80

      14/13/3.7, steal from BTN 50, hands 157

      I doubd that he 3rd barrel bluffs there. And if he bets for value weaker hand than mine, then the size would be smaller. So for me its a fold. But I called because of the saying - if you call turn, you have to call river.
  • 6 replies
    • Kaitz20
      Kaitz20
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      Hi,

      call turn, call river is when player can 3-barrel you. If you don´t ever see 14/13 3-barreling then river fold is fine. But then I would not take that line so I´d better lead out twice myself and then maybe c/f river

      best regards,
    • CallumN
      CallumN
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.01.2012 Posts: 1,141
      River is a sigh fold. Most 14-13 type players are just going to roll over a value hand too often, plus your hand does look a lot like Jx so I doubt he expects you to fold

      Interested in the thoughts on leading flop Kaitz20? Is this because we are always c/c twice anyway, plus we get value from hands he would otherwise checkback turn with?

      I think its a close one on this type of board as its one he is going to cbet 100%. What about c/c flop lead turn? to stop him checking back marginal hands OTT.
    • SPeedFANat1c
      SPeedFANat1c
      Gold
      Joined: 04.01.2009 Posts: 5,071
      Interested in the thoughts on leading flop Kaitz20? Is this because we are always c/c twice anyway, plus we get value from hands he would otherwise checkback turn with? I think its a close one on this type of board as its one he is going to cbet 100%. What about c/c flop lead turn? to stop him checking back marginal hands OTT.

      Yeah, I also think that he will cbet almost 100% this board tahts why c/c ir profitable. And I like lead turn because he might stop betting when there is not scare card. But on the other hand - if he checks back turn, then we can bet river for value and at the same time we can control pot. Of course river can bring Q or A, but its not that likely, there are lot of blank cards.
    • Kaitz20
      Kaitz20
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      Originally posted by CallumN
      River is a sigh fold. Most 14-13 type players are just going to roll over a value hand too often, plus your hand does look a lot like Jx so I doubt he expects you to fold

      Interested in the thoughts on leading flop Kaitz20? Is this because we are always c/c twice anyway, plus we get value from hands he would otherwise checkback turn with?

      I think its a close one on this type of board as its one he is going to cbet 100%. What about c/c flop lead turn? to stop him checking back marginal hands OTT.
      if you lead flop for value tp hands, you can also lead there bluffs, so he has to then start playing back to you or making thin calldowns his showdown value hands. Taking aggressive line with tp hands isn´t really bad thing if you can get called with worse hands.
    • CallumN
      CallumN
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.01.2012 Posts: 1,141
      The problem i find with leading is its hard to balance.

      If i see villian always leading his tp+ type hands, it makes his flop c/c range really weak. Meaning that i will start triple barreling more as he doesnt have KJ in his flop c/c range.
    • Kaitz20
      Kaitz20
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      I think my flop leading range there is likely any pair, mixing up some air , like KT, QT, 98, A3 - although on the SB I would likely either fold or 3-bet these hands. I can consider sometimes c/c if I think player would go crazy, but most of the times I don´t really see no reason c/c unless player is complete nit and I know he would give up worse hands after c-betting once.