Quickly working out nut outs to a straight

    • MikeAK47
      MikeAK47
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.03.2008 Posts: 136
      Any tips for this?

      I can only assume either...

      A) You get better at working out how many nut outs you have the more you do it.

      B) You remember a lot of patterns from working it out in the past e.g. if you have a 3-card wrap with T97x, you know that on an 86x flop you have 13 outs and all of them to the nuts, conversely on a JTx flop you have only 3 nut outs with 987x and are obviously easily dominated.

      C) You never actually bother calculating your exact nut outs, you just estimate them and use simple rules such as "make sure you're always on top of the board" e.g. 987x on 65x (13-non nut/13-nut) as opposed to 432x on 65x (13/3).

      D) You just think "ZOMFG HOLY SHIT! 16 outs! SHIP IT!".
  • 7 replies
    • perperper
      perperper
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.01.2009 Posts: 168
      Chapter 9 in Donkrs PLO Guide have a nifty little tool:

      Wrap around connector:
      2-2 x x y y x x 20 (14)
      2-1 x x y y x 17 (11)
      1-2 x y y x x 17 (7)
      3-1 x x x y y x 16 (16)
      3-0 x x x y y 13 (13)
      0-3 y y x x x 13 (3)

      Wrap around 1-gapper:
      1-1 x y x y x 17 (11)
      2-1 x x y x y x 16 (16)
      2-0 x x y x y 13 (13)
      0-2 y x y x x 13 (3)

      Wrap around 2-gapper:
      1-0 x y x x y 13 (13)
      0-1 y x x y x 13 (7)

      X being your hole cards, Y being the board cards. Digits on the right being outs(nut outs)
      *edit* That didn't look too nice, better go download the txt-file from the link instead :)
    • MikeAK47
      MikeAK47
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.03.2008 Posts: 136
      Use the code tags {code} {/code} except replace the { and } with [ and ] and put the text inside the tags. (quote me and you'll see what I mean)

      code:
      Wrap around connector:
      2-2	x x y y x x 	20 (14)
      2-1	x x y y x	17 (11)
      1-2	x y y x x	17 (7)
      3-1	x x x y y x	16 (16)
      3-0	x x x y y 	13 (13)
      0-3	y y x x x	13 (3)
      
      Wrap around 1-gapper:
      1-1	x y x y x	17 (11)
      2-1	x x y x y x	16 (16)
      2-0	x x y x y	13 (13)
      0-2	y x y x x 	13 (3)
      
      Wrap around 2-gapper:
      1-0	x y x x y	13 (13)
      0-1	y x x y x	13 (7)
      

      That is getting printed out and stuck to my monitor!

      Thanks, very helpful, I've seen his guide before it's excellent! I must read it all soon.
    • GambitCards
      GambitCards
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.10.2009 Posts: 58
      lol *time bank while I check my chart*
    • ThatGuyMatt
      ThatGuyMatt
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.12.2010 Posts: 3,758
      Nvm, didn't realise this was Omaha! lol

      But oh well, I'll leave it here anyway, it may be of some help :)



      Works out your winning %. (Holdem)

      Times your outs by 2 for the % of winning on the turn, Times for 2 again for % of hitting on the river.

      For example:
      You hold: A :spade: T :spade:
      Flop: 3 :spade: K :heart: 9 :spade:

      There are 13 :spade: 's in the Deck, We can see 4, so thats leaves 9 outs.
      9*2 = 18% To hit by the Turn
      (9*2)*2 = 36% To hit by the river

      It works out to around 1%-3% accurate.
    • MikeAK47
      MikeAK47
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.03.2008 Posts: 136
      Yeah I guess that's still quite helpful even for Omaha, the problem is it's tough for a beginner like me to quickly work out exactly how many nut-outs you have in the first place.

      In hold'em it's easy compared to Omaha, you know if you have an open ender, you have 8 nut-outs on a rainbow flop, or 4 with a gutshit, 6 if you have two overs etc.

      I think it's cool that the game is this complex, it's difficult to grasp even the basic concepts such as counting outs. It makes the game that much harder to learn and (hopefully) puts good hold'em player off learning it! :D
    • Kyyberi
      Kyyberi
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 09.07.2010 Posts: 10,511
      Practise makes perfect.

      Everytime you don't know your outs, mark that hand in hem/pt. And after session count them even with pen and paper. Someday you don't really need to count the outs, you just know them.

      What comes to estimating your equity, that 2*outs is too little. Add 2 to that and you have pretty good estimation. Like with flush draw, 9*2=18, add 2 and you have 20%. That is correct. With 12 outs, 12*2=24, add 2 and you have 26%, which is pretty close. Note that this applies only to the next card. To estimate your equity on flop to the river, just multiply your outs with 4 and you have an estimation.

      Don't use any fancy programs to tell you your outs, learn to count them yourself. It might be slow and hard in the beginning, but you should learn it soon.
    • MikeAK47
      MikeAK47
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.03.2008 Posts: 136
      Originally posted by Kyyberi
      Practise makes perfect.

      Don't use any fancy programs to tell you your outs, learn to count them yourself. It might be slow and hard in the beginning, but you should learn it soon.
      I fully intend to! :D

      Hopefully I'll be going down to the Victoria Casino in London to play live high stakes Omaha with an adequate bankroll within a few years.

      That's partly my aim, I want to build a bankroll to give me enough of a roll to play in decent live games without having to worry about going broke. I'll still play online of course, I'd just like to play say 20% live and the rest online.

      Going to need a 12,000 euro / 15,000 dollar BR to play the lowest limits so I'd better start grinding those PLO2 games ASAP!!! :D :D :D