22 vs AK

  • 9 replies
    • ThatGuyMatt
      ThatGuyMatt
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.12.2010 Posts: 3,759
      Hey MoneyDearest,

      I'll try and clear this up :P

      22 is already a made hand so the AK still has to hit a Pair. AK can also only hit 1 Straight which lowers its chances, and you havn't got it suited so you also lose a few % for a flush Draw too.

      For instance JQs has a better chance because it can make 2 Straights + Higher chance of hitting its flush, which now gives it a a better chance with 52.71%
    • gadget51
      gadget51
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.06.2008 Posts: 5,622
      Hi MoneyDearest,

      You are right, AK off-suit has approximately a 47% chance of winning v 22.
      Notice also that even having the same suits for both hands doesn't help our poor old AK much, only by about 1% or so to about 48%.

      Playing around with equilab is fun and you learn so much...or maybe I just have too much time on my hands! :D

      Best regards,

      Mal.
    • Fagin
      Fagin
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.05.2008 Posts: 544
      Hi,

      that sounds about right. The player with 22 has a pair while the player with AK only has A high!

      The AK still has to hit to beat the 22!

      Cheers
    • MoneyDearest
      MoneyDearest
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.05.2011 Posts: 119
      Thanks for the replies!

      Then I guess my real question is this:

      if the small pocket pairs have so much equity, then why are they a fold on most occasions in most of the starting hands charts?

      Equilab takes in to account the probability or not of AK hitting its pair on the flop, right?

      Money.
    • EmanuelC16
      EmanuelC16
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2010 Posts: 13,897
      You're playing against ranges, not hands. That's the easy answer.

      From it you can make a whole discussion about preflop and postflop ranges and their equities on different board textures where you can see AK > 22.
    • trivaa90
      trivaa90
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.08.2010 Posts: 49
      well people tend to get cards such as mid-high pairs too :) not just ak :P
    • MoneyDearest
      MoneyDearest
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.05.2011 Posts: 119
      Wow, I just took a loose range from what i've seen around the NL5 tables, and compared the small pockets pairs. (66+,A6s+,K9s+,QTs+,JTs,T9s,98s,A5o+,KTo+,QTo+,JTo)

      22 still has 48%, which is still more than I thought, but admittedly loosing. Then I started trying higher pocket pairs, and around 77 to 88 is where it finally tips over....

      .... which are the pairs that start appearing on the starting hands charts....



      *Beginning to understanding the starting hands charts*
    • RobertDaPro
      RobertDaPro
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.06.2011 Posts: 410
      why we fold 22? At the best we hope is flip when pushing or calling. Any other pair 33+ has it crushed.

      Post flop is even worse. No set no bet. All 100% over cards on the board. Hard to call anything.

      Ofc some situations like sng binds high BU push etc 22 is atleast something.
    • MoneyDearest
      MoneyDearest
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.05.2011 Posts: 119
      Hey again,

      one more question, just to check my understanding/terminology. (and my understanding of the terminology :P !)

      I get your previous points about ranges, that makes sense.

      Now, coming at this from a Fundamental Theory of Poker point of view, lets say you know for sure your opponent has AK, versus your 22, or even 88 say, so it's more or less a coin flip. (FTP = decision is correct if you would do the same if you knew opponents cards, right?)

      Is it correct to say this is bad to call because of implied odds?

      So, if an opponent hits the flop, he is definitely betting and you can definitely behind, and if he misses, he won't pay you out = bad implied odds?

      Then again, if you flop a set, your opponent won't see it coming, so your implied odds improve, and this is what one calls set mining?

      Cheers,
      Money.