[NL2-NL10] JJ overpair nit-fold

    • redwarf01
      redwarf01
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.08.2010 Posts: 225
      Villain has 97/12/2.0 after 69 hands
      1. Is raising on the flop better than calling? He can still call his 9x hands and all his SDs...
      2. On the turn I dont like his pot bet, if he had 9x he would not bet pot now, that he doesnt have a TP anymore so I cant see a hand I beat, T8 or T7 at best.
      Thx for help

      Party, $0.01/$0.02 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 8 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

      SB: $2 (100 bb)
      MP1: $4.07 (203.5 bb)
      MP2: $0.32 (16 bb)
      MP3: $1.37 (68.5 bb)
      BB: $2.95 (147.5 bb)
      CO: $2 (100 bb)
      Hero (BTN): $2 (100 bb)
      UTG+2: $2.40 (120 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is BTN with J J
      UTG+2 calls $0.02, 2 folds, MP3 calls $0.02, CO folds, Hero raises to $0.12, 2 folds, UTG+2 calls $0.10, MP3 calls $0.10

      Flop: ($0.39) 9 4 6 (3 players)
      UTG+2 bets $0.19, MP3 folds, Hero calls $0.19

      Turn: ($0.77) T (2 players)
      UTG+2 bets $0.74, Hero folds

      Results: $0.77 pot ($0.03 rake)
      Final Board: 9 4 6 T
      Hero mucked J J and lost (-$0.31 net)
      UTG+2 mucked and won $0.74 ($0.43 net)
  • 13 replies
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello redwarf01,

      Nah, seems to be fine, I wouldn't play much differently here. Nice hand!

      Best Regards.
    • redwarf01
      redwarf01
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.08.2010 Posts: 225
      :f_confused:
      Now I am not sure whether you misread my hand or not... I have overpair on the flop, I did not call to catch any outs but with most propably the best hand...
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by redwarf01
      :f_confused:
      Now I am not sure whether you misread my hand or not... I have overpair on the flop, I did not call to catch any outs but with most propably the best hand...
      Yeah, actually I did. :D Nice hand! Somehow I saw you just having some high card. My head has been a mess those few days, just finished my last exam for university. :)
    • cekpirus88
      cekpirus88
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.06.2011 Posts: 441
      why you do not raise on the flop? there are all undercards to your pair..
    • redwarf01
      redwarf01
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.08.2010 Posts: 225
      Originally posted by veriz

      Yeah, actually I did. :D Nice hand! Somehow I saw you just having some high card. My head has been a mess those few days, just finished my last exam for university. :)
      I hope you made it then :)

      @ cekpirus88: I dont want to isolate myself against better hands. But since villain is a big fish, I actually think raising for value and playing for stacks is better, isnt it? :rolleyes:
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Why? Calling is totally fine there, you don't isolate against very strong made hands which could be in his range. If he bet/3bets then we are in ugly shape.
    • cekpirus88
      cekpirus88
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.06.2011 Posts: 441
      I still do not get it .. sorry this is NL2... just 7 8 completes a straight, he can have A9, AT. I would play the hand completely differently especially on the flop, yes I will play for stack on the flop (is NL2!!!!)
    • gnawhalak
      gnawhalak
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.06.2010 Posts: 161
      i think i'd 3bet /shove on the flop myself..

      on 3bet/call, donk on flop.. i would fold
    • CallumN
      CallumN
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.01.2012 Posts: 1,141


      Im going broke here vs the fish. Think i just keep clicking call until all 5 cards are out
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by cekpirus88
      I still do not get it .. sorry this is NL2... just 7 8 completes a straight, he can have A9, AT. I would play the hand completely differently especially on the flop, yes I will play for stack on the flop (is NL2!!!!)
      And you still think you are that ahead there? Why should A9 make a pot size bet on turn after he bets 1/2 on the flop? 1/2 -> induce raise? The range I guess you imagine him having from your sentence:

      Board: 9:heart: 4:spade: 6:diamond:  T:spade:
             Equity     Win     Tie
      UTG    26.16%  26.16%   0.00% { JhJs }
      UTG+1  73.84%  73.84%   0.00% { TT-99, 66, 44, ATs, T9s, 87s, ATo, T9o, 87o }

      I said that playing this way and taking pot control while being in multiway pot is totally fine and which we shouldn't think of being a bad play not that raising is overplayed. Obviously we can expect the opponent to have a lot of draws 9x hands in his range against which we can raise for value. But I tend to see those players are capable of playing on later streets no matter what anyways and they tend to play passively with TP, so it would be really easy to play for us the hand with pot control and being IP.
    • CallumN
      CallumN
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.01.2012 Posts: 1,141
      There needs to be a whole bunch more of fish spazz in there? hes playing 90% of hands....
    • MrJohnAce
      MrJohnAce
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.05.2009 Posts: 24
      I'm all for raise/folding the flop... that way you're giving him bad odds the make his straight and if he raises, you're probably up against hands like 44, 64 and maybe even 66, which he might've raised with preflop... 99 he would've almost definitely raised preflop.

      If he donked again on the turn, after calling your raise on the flop, you should fold most of the time.

      I don't think his 1/2 pot bet was a suckbet... he's a bad player and even the bad players know that check/raise is more profitable than donking.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by MrJohnAce
      I'm all for raise/folding the flop... that way you're giving him bad odds the make his straight and if he raises, you're probably up against hands like 44, 64 and maybe even 66, which he might've raised with preflop... 99 he would've almost definitely raised preflop.

      If he donked again on the turn, after calling your raise on the flop, you should fold most of the time.

      I don't think his 1/2 pot bet was a suckbet... he's a bad player and even the bad players know that check/raise is more profitable than donking.
      Yep, that's true that we could find out even with the raise there where we stand. But why I'd try to avoid that is such a guy may still even overplay his TP and may want to play for the stacks, don't you think? So kind of raise/folding might be a bit too weak. :( That's why I'd prefer pot control.