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5cd Question on strategy article

    • Gurkha
      Gurkha
      Gold
      Joined: 15.04.2005 Posts: 1,288
      In the article about opponents EvGalois gives some hints what several actions by an opponent could mean.
      I don't get what the description in part 2 of the "entereing pot with a raise and discarding 2 cards" means:

      The intention of carding 2 is to try to control the pot (in or out of position) and Sometimes, if they improve, they will value bet their two pair or developed trips. However, these players will not improve a lot of the time, some will consider betting again (unimproved) and some will just check down.
      I just don't see a connection between discarding 2 cards and pot control. Maybe someone of you can help me out.
  • 5 replies
    • jbpatzer
      jbpatzer
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.11.2009 Posts: 6,955
      Originally posted by Gurkha
      In the article about opponents EvGalois gives some hints what several actions by an opponent could mean.
      I don't get what the description in part 2 of the "entereing pot with a raise and discarding 2 cards" means:

      The intention of carding 2 is to try to control the pot (in or out of position) and Sometimes, if they improve, they will value bet their two pair or developed trips. However, these players will not improve a lot of the time, some will consider betting again (unimproved) and some will just check down.
      I just don't see a connection between discarding 2 cards and pot control. Maybe someone of you can help me out.
      I think he means that by discarding 2 he's hoping you will think he has trips, and check it to him so that he gets a free showdown.......but I could be wrong.
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 10,754
      Put the situation in reverse.
      You are in BTN w/ AA and there is a limper ahead of you.

      If you raise, and draw 3, you reveal that you have at most 1 pr.
      If somebody hits 2pr, or already has it, they are very, very likely to bet out.

      Some people in this situation would raise, then draw 2, (or even 1) to try to make you think that they have better than 1 pr.

      This may also get better hands in the blinds to fold, thinking their 2233x is no longer any good.
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 10,754
      As luck would have it, I have an example of this from tonight:

      Converted by the cows of Feral Cow Poker
      PokerStars Limit 5 Card Draw $0.10/$0.20 - 6 players

      BB: $3.41
      UTG: $4.30
      UTG+1: $4.81
      CO: $2.68
      Button: $4.72 (Hero)
      SB: $0.98

      Dealing Hands: ($0.15) (6 players)
      3 folds, Hero raises to $0.20, SB folds, BB calls $0.10
      The blinds folded a lot to steals, so worth a shot

      First Draw: ($0.45) (2 players)
      BB discards 2, Hero discards 3,
      ||
      BB checks, Hero checks
      If he really has trips, he would have re-raised me preflop, but he has check/raised me before when he hit post flop, and I'm happy to just check behind with my very minimal two pair -- so his "pot control" tactic of drawing two actually worked. In this case, even if he had drawn 3, I would have checked behind. Also, a lot of people discard only 1 when they hold trips.

      BB showed , a pair of Kings
      Hero showed , two pair, Fours and Deuces
      Hero won $0.43
      (Rake: $0.02)
    • tolthor
      tolthor
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.12.2008 Posts: 60
      I would think that jbpatzer & Vorpal are right

      @VorpalF2F: don't you think you should bet out postdraw with your 2 pair?
      For me, in a blindbattle, that is a more than good enough hand.
      You would get called a lot of the times in this situation with pairs (lower than KK) And if you don't, don't you become somewhat readable?
      If I were in the big blind and saw you checking behind, I would practically never
      call your bets postdraw without at least a decent 2 pair, while on the other hand I would call a lot of your preflop raises since you tried to steal with either 22 or 44 at best! And then bet out postdraw making you fold a lot of hands
      It would even be profitable to just reraise your steals a lot and bet out postdraw. (I think)

      In general: you try to steal because the blinds are tight. If they see you steal with 22 or 44 and checking behind 2 low pairs, they can adapt to easily.

      I must stress I'm only a beginner in Limit 5CardDraw, I've only played a few 1000 hands at 0,5/1$, so would love to hear your thoughts ... and those of others as well of course ...
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 10,754
      Originally posted by tolthor
      @VorpalF2F: don't you think you should bet out postdraw with your 2 pair?
      Normally yes.
      In this case I did not for the following reasons:
        Checking behind saves me $ if he is trapping, gives me information about his play if not. At the lowest limits (which is all I have played) a LOT of players check/raise if they hit when OOP and calling a preflop raise. If the BB hit anything, I'm toast with this hand.
        Reasons described above.
        I had not enough hands on this guy to know what his "draw2" meant.