Is it still worth it to pay absurd rake at 888?

    • luizsilveira
      luizsilveira
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.11.2010 Posts: 2,320
      Hi,

      I'm just trying to start up a healthy discussion here. As some 888 representatives might read it as well, it could be worth it in terms of feedback etc.

      To cut the story short, rake's cap at no limit/pot limit tables is $4. Yes, you got it right, $4 (even on micro limits).


      Pot Limit and No Limit

      Table Limit:1¢/2¢

      No. of Players Rake per Pot MAX
      2 1¢ for each 16¢ in Pot $1
      3+ 1¢ for each 16¢ in Pot $4

      Table Limit:3¢/6¢

      No. of Players Rake per Pot MAX
      2 1¢ for each 17¢ in Pot $1
      3+ 1¢ for each 17¢ in Pot $4

      Table Limit:5¢/10¢-$1-$2

      No. of Players Rake per Pot MAX
      2 1¢ for each 20¢ in Pot $1
      3+ 1¢ for each 20¢ in Pot $4

      Table Limit: $2-$4 through $25-$50

      No. of Players Rake per Pot MAX
      2 1¢ for each 20¢ in Pot $1
      3 1¢ for each 20¢ in Pot $2.50
      4-10 1¢ for each 20¢ in Pot $4

      source: http://888-external-en.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/889/kw/rake/prod/4



      Since 5% of $60 is still $3, I think you still wouldn't feel the cap problem very much until NL50, but just a bit. On NL50, however, it does make a huge difference.

      Of course my wondering comes also in the context of Stars' recent rake changes. There, the cap for NL50 is $2.5 (for a comparison).

      So every time you get an all in pot, on 888 you pay $4 rake; on Stars you pay $2.5 rake. (And notice that I'm not even comparing rakeback/VIP systems).

      On NL100+ it gets even more dramatic, as $80 pots (the threshold for the $4 cap on 5% rake) are reached quite easily.

      So on 888's NL200, on an $80+ pot, we pay $4 rake every time. On Stars, the cap is reached at ~$62, i.e., for every $62+ pot we pay only $2.8 rake.

      Notice that we're paying 42% more rake on every pot beyond 40BB (or 20BB each player on a HU pot). That's strikes me as insane and outrageous.

      What do you guys think?

      I'm still playing there... but might leave quite soon.
  • 14 replies
    • taavi1337
      taavi1337
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.05.2009 Posts: 2,920
      You just need to find the tables with the highest bb/100 for you. If a fish on your right at PokerStars loses 10bb/100 but 30bb/100 at 888, then the rake is just a minor factor and you should play on 888. I by myself find small sites much more +EV, because the field is just so much softer even though the rake is higher.
    • Tempoilija
      Tempoilija
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.12.2011 Posts: 150
      I have heard you get bonus offers from 888 pretty often. A bit like first deposit bonus. Thats almost better than rakeback.

      Send email to them and ask.
    • giraffe1977
      giraffe1977
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.07.2008 Posts: 2,857
      Table Limit: $100/$200-$250/$500

      No. of Players Rake per Pot MAX
      2-10 Flat rake of $3 $3

      Have they changed the rake structure?
    • luizsilveira
      luizsilveira
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.11.2010 Posts: 2,320
      Originally posted by taavi1337
      You just need to find the tables with the highest bb/100 for you. If a fish on your right at PokerStars loses 10bb/100 but 30bb/100 at 888, then the rake is just a minor factor and you should play on 888. I by myself find small sites much more +EV, because the field is just so much softer even though the rake is higher.
      I don't disagree at all. My question what exactly if the field difference pays off the absurdity in rake.

      And I wouldn't put "small sites" all together. I don't think 888 is all that small anymore, and I don't think the "small sites" all charge extra rake (they might have poor VIP for grinders but I think we agree 888's VIP system is a bit of a joke anyway).

      Originally posted by Tempoilija
      I have heard you get bonus offers from 888 pretty often. A bit like first deposit bonus. Thats almost better than rakeback.

      Send email to them and ask.
      Yeah, I know that.

      Why would it be better than rakeback?

      If I'm not mistaken, 888's bonus is actually = ~10%rb (by the rate it clears).

      Still it's not better than many sites. But that's not the point... even if rakeback was good at 888 (and it's not), why would one want to pay as high as 40% more rake to receive 10 or 20% more rakeback? :rolleyes:

      Originally posted by giraffe1977
      Table Limit: $100/$200-$250/$500

      No. of Players Rake per Pot MAX
      2-10 Flat rake of $3 $3

      Have they changed the rake structure?
      I didn't find that info but... don't you think those stakes a little bit higher than the ones I've mentioned? :D

      Anyway, I posted the source:

      editing to correct the source: http://888-external-en.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/889/kw/rake/prod/4
    • Tempoilija
      Tempoilija
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.12.2011 Posts: 150
      1$ rake is 2 vip points. You need to get 100 vip points(50$) to release 10$. So its 20% of rakeback right there.
      You are playing pretty much because you are on platinum level here, so you would propably be platinum level in 888 too and that gives you 18% of rakeback. Combining these two your rakeback would be 38%. Not a bad deal. :f_grin:
    • pibomarco
      pibomarco
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.04.2009 Posts: 36
      i think its more silver, then platinum.. well when i was silver on 888, i was here platinum:)
    • Kyyberi
      Kyyberi
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 09.07.2010 Posts: 10,507
      $4 cap is sick. And it strucks micros under NL50 the most. As in NL100, that difference is just 1bb. In NL10 it is 10bb's, ten times more.

      At Ongame the rake is same 6%, but with $3 cap. And it is borderline if it is beatable without good rakeback/bonuses. Now when the cap is 1/3 more, I am pretty confident that even most of the good players are struggling to beat the rake at lower limits.

      edit: forgot that the rakecap won't be hit until NL100 usually. So yeah, it strucks NL100+ the most.
    • EmanuelC16
      EmanuelC16
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2010 Posts: 13,897
      1. CAP is alsmot never hit at micros so it doesn't matter that much until NL50 like you said. Speaking from personal experience when I played there, the jump from NL30 to NL50 can be quite surprising. I thought it was me playing much worse/opponents and didn't consider the rake structure since I didn't have easy access to it. Since the rake is higher, there also are less regulars so it could actually compensate. I think this is subjective and each player has to decide if it's worth paying more rake to play worse opponents.

      2. Over the couple of K hands of PLO I played there recently when iPoker tables were kinda nitty I have noticed an astonishing rake of 12-14bb/100 at PLO10 and PLO25 which is the lowest PLO raked I have ever seen. Stars was 18-20bb/100. I wanted to point this out because all other sites I know rape PLO25 players with their rake, Stars included.

      @Kyy: Micros on 888 are well beatable. The network has one of if not the softest micros field.
    • trippy0420
      trippy0420
      Basic
      Joined: 05.01.2014 Posts: 1
      $4 at NL$200 is pretty standard as far as i see. Its a $4 cap at $1-$2NL at the Taj so i dont see any difference.

      As far as promotions go 888 is second to none.

      There was free $ at signup.

      They ran a 12 days of christmas thing where as long as u played 30 raked hands a day they credited you $5 for all 12 days.

      100% bonus on first deposit up to $500.

      AND.

      They're running a 50% rake back until the 7th. I think it started the 25th.

      Ive received over $600 in rake back!!!!!
    • metza
      metza
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.01.2012 Posts: 2,220
      Originally posted by trippy0420
      $4 at NL$200 is pretty standard as far as i see. Its a $4 cap at $1-$2NL at the Taj so i dont see any difference.

      As far as promotions go 888 is second to none.

      There was free $ at signup.

      They ran a 12 days of christmas thing where as long as u played 30 raked hands a day they credited you $5 for all 12 days.

      100% bonus on first deposit up to $500.

      AND.

      They're running a 50% rake back until the 7th. I think it started the 25th.

      Ive received over $600 in rake back!!!!!
      You can't justify an online sites rake % by comparing it to live (where they have to provide building, pay a dealer and often free drinks etc.). You don't see any difference, well, there is a ton.
    • microhero
      microhero
      Basic
      Joined: 14.06.2013 Posts: 11
      Originally posted by trippy0420
      $4 at NL$200 is pretty standard as far as i see. Its a $4 cap at $1-$2NL at the Taj so i dont see any difference.

      As far as promotions go 888 is second to none.

      There was free $ at signup.

      They ran a 12 days of christmas thing where as long as u played 30 raked hands a day they credited you $5 for all 12 days.

      100% bonus on first deposit up to $500.

      AND.

      They're running a 50% rake back until the 7th. I think it started the 25th.

      Ive received over $600 in rake back!!!!!
      Can't really trust new poster.
      Free $ at signup = many sites do this
      100% FDB = 100% standard
      Don't know anything about the other 2 promotions so I can't comment.

      I'm considering playing on 888, but with rake this high and bonuses sucking so much, I don't know if I should.
    • Frexas22
      Frexas22
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.01.2014 Posts: 16
      Hey 888!

      You have lost a customer thanks to the absurd rake and the worthless rakeback you have.

      Tried out your site, because i wanted to try something new, when i was in a downswing at pokertars and yes the competition is nice and the site is nice, i would like to be able to stay at your site BUT it's just absurd and you have lost me as a customer.

      As a micro 1dollars SNG player do i get 50% of my profit and this is just til my bonuses is cleared. have cleared one and am on my last then i am stuck with the worthless 4% rakeback bronzeplayers get, but i am not even a bronzeplayer.

      Here is my sharkscopegraph http://postimg.org/image/lnqv3refl/

      Of the 80 dollars i have won do i get to keep 40 (10bonus) and when i am done with the welcome bonus its just even more absurd and i am out.
      Welcomebonus... its nothing more than normal rakeback.

      I can't justify playing on a site which takes 62% of my profits.
    • 888Rep
      888Rep
      Gold
      Joined: 05.01.2015 Posts: 287
      Originally posted by Frexas22
      Hey 888!

      You have lost a customer thanks to the absurd rake and the worthless rakeback you have.

      Tried out your site, because i wanted to try something new, when i was in a downswing at pokertars and yes the competition is nice and the site is nice, i would like to be able to stay at your site BUT it's just absurd and you have lost me as a customer.

      As a micro 1dollars SNG player do i get 50% of my profit and this is just til my bonuses is cleared. have cleared one and am on my last then i am stuck with the worthless 4% rakeback bronzeplayers get, but i am not even a bronzeplayer.

      Here is my sharkscopegraph http://postimg.org/image/lnqv3refl/

      Of the 80 dollars i have won do i get to keep 40 (10bonus) and when i am done with the welcome bonus its just even more absurd and i am out.
      Welcomebonus... its nothing more than normal rakeback.

      I can't justify playing on a site which takes 62% of my profits.
      The higher your statuse the more benefits you get so it may be worthwhile playing more and moving up the ranks where you will get points a lot quicker.
      Take a look here,
      http://888-external-en.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/3353/prod/4
    • Frexas22
      Frexas22
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.01.2014 Posts: 16
      Hey and thanks for the answer, i already know about the different status you can achieve.

      4% Rakeback is not nearly enough for me, and when the initial bonus (10% rakeback) is gone then you are left with 4% if you are bronze!
      Even the Diamond level (20% rakeback) is low and that takes incredible amount of play to a SNG player.

      Then i am left with how that graph is looking currently, because you can't see the bonuses in that one.

      I am sorry but i am out