Folding KK pre-flop NL5/NL10 FR

    • 4adeadpoet
      4adeadpoet
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.02.2011 Posts: 15
      At NL2 going all in preflop was standard every time no excuses with KK but ive noticed the play tightens up considerably at NL5 and more so at NL10 and for every time i go all in with KK ive been on the losing end more times than not playing around 50k hands,

      I know on the strategy guides it says KK all in is a must move for all the micro limits but should i be folding KK to a Shove after my 4-bet? i know it can be situational, against fish im doing it every time but should i be folding against LAGs and TAGS etc?

      Im trying to not be results orientated and tell my self it will even out but.......will it? or should i be folding?

      Any experience would be greatly appreciated as im sure my win rate would benefit greatly!!
  • 11 replies
    • Alficor1
      Alficor1
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.06.2010 Posts: 7,291
      If you plan on folding to a 5bet then why the hell do you 4bet with KK in the first place?
    • 4adeadpoet
      4adeadpoet
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.02.2011 Posts: 15
      i dont plan on folding that the point, should i be? If i 4-bet with 25bb/s as standard and then he shoves for 100bb/s losing 25bb/s isnt so bad but losing 100bb/s is a different story.
    • lulupops
      lulupops
      Bronze
      Joined: 31.01.2012 Posts: 28
      stop being silly

      over 50k hands how many kk have you had?

      how many of those all in pf did you lose?
    • 4adeadpoet
      4adeadpoet
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.02.2011 Posts: 15
      i,ve had KK 131 times and im -220bb/s at 5NL
      @2NL however i had it 170 times and im 1400bb/s up!? :)

      I asked my mate and he played 100k hands at NL10 and hes nearly 1000bb/s up but he says he folds to shove most of the time against tags and nits
    • gadget51
      gadget51
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.06.2008 Posts: 5,622
      Hi 4adeadpoet,

      My reply would be that if you say you are trying not to be results orientated, then why would you ask the question at all?

      I can guarantee you will get your money in best more times than not at micros, I've played there for 4 years now. I get my chips in the middle even against an 8/6 guy and often am not totally happy about it, but don't forget that being tight or nitty doesn't mean they wont make mistakes like tilting or/and getting stubborn with 88, 99, TT or JJ or AQs or AK or .....

      Sometimes it jsut feels like very time you push KK it goes down, but it wont over a good sample. Of course it always sucks when I get called by 88 and the guy has 25bb. :)

      Anyway, my opinion is just shove and smile, but it is just my opinion.

      Regards,

      Mal.
    • Wurble
      Wurble
      Silver
      Joined: 04.04.2009 Posts: 456
      Ship it every time. Granted I only played about 60k hands nl2 & nl5 fr but I'm in profit doing it..

      Do you use a tracker and if you do, have you got a decent sample on any regs? I would be looking up all of their pre-flop all ins and if you see any only going broke with AA pre over a decent sample then fold your KK to them and ship it against everyone else.

      Have to say though, I'd be surprised if you find anyone only going broke pre with AA on nl5.
    • Saren113
      Saren113
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.03.2009 Posts: 2,867
      Folding after a 4 bet is a loosing play, if we say like this, you already have invested ALOT when you 4 bets it's almost a 1/4 of a stack in the pot already, you need to stick 75 more to possible win 200. But you are playing fullring right? I am usually less inclined to 3 bet a UTG opener with KK, as someone behind us can squeeze etc and then we can get it in and they will almost never put us on such a strong range. But I am not playing fullring.
    • 4adeadpoet
      4adeadpoet
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.02.2011 Posts: 15
      Thanks for the decent replys,

      yeah i got holdem manager2, and yeah im playing full ring,
      I guess hopefully it will get better over a bigger sample size, was just seeing if there was another way to tackle it coz seeing -220bb/s over 50k was a little surprising! i was expecting to be up by something!

      its not that im results orientated, im still shipping every time and i know its a +EV play but im always looking for leaks in my play so was beginning to think that this is a bad one!

      i will just hopefully run better soon and start reaping some rewards! :)
    • fuzzyfish
      fuzzyfish
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.01.2010 Posts: 862
      Originally posted by 4adeadpoet
      i know it can be situational, against fish im doing it every time but should i be folding against LAGs and TAGS etc?
      Against LAGs, definately!
    • MatejM47
      MatejM47
      Black
      Joined: 21.01.2010 Posts: 1,193
      Originally posted by 4adeadpoet
      Thanks for the decent replys,

      yeah i got holdem manager2, and yeah im playing full ring,
      I guess hopefully it will get better over a bigger sample size, was just seeing if there was another way to tackle it coz seeing -220bb/s over 50k was a little surprising! i was expecting to be up by something!

      its not that im results orientated, im still shipping every time and i know its a +EV play but im always looking for leaks in my play so was beginning to think that this is a bad one!

      i will just hopefully run better soon and start reaping some rewards! :)

      You are results oriented and what worse your in denial about it :)

      50k hands is pretty much nothing overall, its even less when checking how your doing with specific handranges and its really pointless to go into specific hands at this point at all.

      Im not familiar with the state of the game on nl5 FR but from my FR experience there's some uber nits that KK is a fairly easy fold, especially in earlier positions.
    • purplefizz
      purplefizz
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.03.2008 Posts: 4,508
      hey guys,

      moved this to the NL Strategy Discussion board, hope you don't mind.

      personally i would ship KK every time with a skip in my step. maybe even QQ :f_biggrin:

      smiles,
      wendy