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Taking notes during session

  • 22 replies
    • Wurble
      Wurble
      Silver
      Joined: 04.04.2009 Posts: 457
      • 07.02.2012, 12:31
      • This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by Wurble: 07.02.2012 13:15.
      Notes are essential to completely crush a limit... That'll be why I don't crush then :f_confused:

      I've just started making notes and IMO bet sizing for different types of hands is important and how they react to different board textures. I try to make detailed notes on anything viain does that I think I can exploit later.

      And sorry, that'll be notes while playing! Sure, you can add stuff you may have missed when reviewing but you should mak the notes ASAP so you can use them straight away.
    • JimC6
      JimC6
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.04.2011 Posts: 458
      I prefer making them during play and put as much detail as can. There is always a chance if you left it till later in the day or even longer you might forget some facts about the situation that may have affected the play which are not available in your hand histories.
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      What could you forget that the hand does not show on its own, for example?
      Are you speaking about timing tells or something?
    • taavi1337
      taavi1337
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.05.2009 Posts: 2,920
      • 07.02.2012, 13:19
      • This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by taavi1337: 07.02.2012 13:19.
      I would recommend to take immediate notes as well. This way you can adjust your game much quicker. It's especially important against fishes, who are likely to go busto after few hands and leave, never to be seen again
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      I would recommend to take immediate notes as well. This way you can adjust your game much quicker. It's especially important against fishes, who are likely to go busto after few hands and leave, never to be seen again


      Sounds logical and sound. But by taking immediate notes you surely do not mean taking all the possible useful notes you can, since we have limited time and attention (I assume we are talking about multitabling). Provided my assumption is correct, what kind of notes would you suggest taking straight away and which ones to leave for the reviews? Basically – how do you choose which notes are better be taken now than later?
    • DukeXIII
      DukeXIII
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.12.2010 Posts: 173
      • 07.02.2012, 14:32
      • This post has been edited 2 time(s), it was last edited by DukeXIII: 07.02.2012 14:35.
      So here are the notes I use when I play. I have concluded on these after studying the PS articles about note taking and from Harrington on online 6max games.

      First I separate them in PRF (preflop) and PF (postflop)

      PRF notes:

      1. LFC ratio (Limp Fold or Call)

      2. 3b hands

      3. AI hands

      4. Steal

      5. Individual hands + position (which help you to shape a better idea about what are his Calling ranges and Raising ranges according to different positions)

      PF notes:

      1. Bets meaning
      a) min bet = weakness or try to induce bluff?
      b) donkbet = ?
      c) OVB(overbet) =?

      2. AI= ? S (set) +, 2p +, TPTK + .... etc

      3. STRFW/OPP = straight forward or opposite? + SP (slowplay) ratio

      4. ATWD (all the way down)=? for example is he going to call all streets with TPBK in a wet board ?

      5. Individual hands which again help you to shape his Value Bet range /Bluff range: Note how they have been played from which position etc..


      I hope this helped a bit. Please if anyone has any further suggestions feel free to add or make comments on the list cause I m always trying to make it more efficient and easy to used
    • CallumN
      CallumN
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.01.2012 Posts: 1,141
      Most of my notes are either:

      absolute clown wont fold a pair

      or

      Vbet super thin thinks im crazy

      They often appear together.
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      • 07.02.2012, 15:44
      • This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by Avatars91: 07.02.2012 15:49.
      DukeXIII and CallumN, is the information you mentioned something that you focus on during playing, i.e. do you not seperate your note taking process into taking notes while playing and taking notes when reviewing your games? Because at least all the aspects that DukeXIII suggests focusing on seem to be rather time-consuming in the sense that it is hard to take all the notes during actual play without losing sight of all the action on all tables.
    • CallumN
      CallumN
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.01.2012 Posts: 1,141
      I rarely take notes from session reviews, I normally take all my notes whilst i play.

      The reason is you forget a lot of things after you have played the session like current table dynamique etc and make biased or incorrect notes because of this.

      learning to type quick notes helps, if a player has seen me 5bet bluff, i will type ki5bb meaning knows I 5bet bluff. Or CR Kxxss with 56ss instead of check raises 56 on KQ7 with flush draw.

      also having question marks after possible reads and ! after confirmed reads. Like quick bets are weak? flop donks are strong!
    • MJPerry
      MJPerry
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.10.2011 Posts: 4,910
      Originally posted by CallumN
      I rarely take notes from session reviews, I normally take all my notes whilst i play.

      The reason is you forget a lot of things after you have played the session like current table dynamique etc and make biased or incorrect notes because of this.

      learning to type quick notes helps, if a player has seen me 5bet bluff, i will type ki5bb meaning knows I 5bet bluff. Or CR Kxxss with 56ss instead of check raises 56 on KQ7 with flush draw.

      also having question marks after possible reads and ! after confirmed reads. Like quick bets are weak? flop donks are strong!
      Yeah shorthand is great, but it's important to do it regularly/keep an index so you don't confuse yourself wondering "wtf did I mean when I wrote 'c/r b/c c/f Q2275 w/fd"
    • CallumN
      CallumN
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.01.2012 Posts: 1,141
      Too much pokers when I realise i can snap read 'c/r b/c c/f Q2275 w/fd" and know exactly what happened.
    • MJPerry
      MJPerry
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.10.2011 Posts: 4,910
      Originally posted by CallumN
      Too much pokers when I realise i can snap read 'c/r b/c c/f Q2275 w/fd" and know exactly what happened.
      :D

      Bad example but I didn't have the time to think of a super complex one. Maybe I can test you with convoluted shorthand.
    • DukeXIII
      DukeXIII
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.12.2010 Posts: 173
      I am trying to take as many notes as I can while I m playing. Actually I never thought to start making notes after I finished my sessions. In the beginning is a bit difficult to take a lot of them. And I m sure I need to become better on this but I think that the more you practice the more easier it gets. It helps also if you use some kind of standardized words or symbols and not change them all the time. This way your brain will get used to it much faster.
      All in all I believe that this way poker becomes more enjoyable and can help your win rate too much cause you can exploit your opponents much easier (which by the way is important to take notes while you play). So I prefer to play between 4 - 6 tables and take notes than play more and not take them.
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      Just a quick "note" – EXCELLENT feedback, you guys!

      A valuable realization – I have a significant difficulty with determining which information from a hand is essential to be taken down into a note, as well as with making the note quickly when I do choose what to include in it.

      I am playing no more than 4 tables at a time I have just started implementing the note-taking system suggested in the PS silver article on reads/notes, I am trying to quickly decide what to put down, but I just can't make it in time to include it all during actual play. I keep missing important hands while typing notes on situations that occurred several minutes ago. Is it a matter of practice? Should I play at fewer tables until I improve my note taking? I am somewhat left confused now that you all have more or less convinced me that taking most of the notes during sessions is the way to go.
    • Wurble
      Wurble
      Silver
      Joined: 04.04.2009 Posts: 457
      Originally posted by Avatars91
      Just a quick "note" – EXCELLENT feedback, you guys!

      A valuable realization – I have a significant difficulty with determining which information from a hand is essential to be taken down into a note, as well as with making the note quickly when I do choose what to include in it.

      I am playing no more than 4 tables at a time I have just started implementing the note-taking system suggested in the PS silver article on reads/notes, I am trying to quickly decide what to put down, but I just can't make it in time to include it all during actual play. I keep missing important hands while typing notes on situations that occurred several minutes ago. Is it a matter of practice? Should I play at fewer tables until I improve my note taking? I am somewhat left confused now that you all have more or less convinced me that taking most of the notes during sessions is the way to go.
      I'm pretty much in the same boat... never used to take notes, just colour coded for fish or reg! I'm finding that the more notes I take the easier it is getting. I need to adopt some short hand though because my notes are getting a bit excessive. I find that the most important things are bet sizing and how different types of hands are played... eg. Is he going broke with TPTK on a draw heavy flop? does he check\raise strong draws and check\call weak draws? Does he donk when he hits oop? etc Anything you can use later to gain an extra edge on the villain is worthy of a note.
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      The problem for me lies not as much in determining the information as in being able to quickly see the most important characteristics of a hand.

      The biggest problem, however, lies in quickly putting it down. I try doing it by the method suggested in this article: http://www.pokerstrategy.com/strategy/bss/1587/1/

      But it is impossible to follow during live play. I am starting to ask myself: why would I even want to follow a principle like this during live play? What is wrong with writing the note quickly in my own words instead of trying to code the note into something like this: "MS, Q3s UTG, l/c isoR MP, AQTrA3 F ch/c T ch/c R ch/cAI" while playing at 4 tables simultaneously. Maybe this method is the reason I am not as successful in this particular aspect as I could be?
    • Wurble
      Wurble
      Silver
      Joined: 04.04.2009 Posts: 457
      There's no right and wrong way... Just get the info down in a way that you understand. You can refine it later and in fact refining it will be a natural process that will develop over time.

      I still find it difficult getting info down and it can take me several minutes to get a note on a hand while playing multiple tables but it's getting easier.
    • mPowers
      mPowers
      Basic
      Joined: 03.02.2012 Posts: 9
      What I do is take one note and try to be as descriptive as possible and I prefer to label my opponents using a color system. I just collect all relevant info.
    • DukeXIII
      DukeXIII
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.12.2010 Posts: 173
      • 08.02.2012, 11:36
      • This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by DukeXIII: 08.02.2012 12:01.
      Originally posted by Avatars91
      Just a quick "note" – EXCELLENT feedback, you guys!

      A valuable realization – I have a significant difficulty with determining which information from a hand is essential to be taken down into a note, as well as with making the note quickly when I do choose what to include in it.

      I am playing no more than 4 tables at a time I have just started implementing the note-taking system suggested in the PS silver article on reads/notes, I am trying to quickly decide what to put down, but I just can't make it in time to include it all during actual play. I keep missing important hands while typing notes on situations that occurred several minutes ago. Is it a matter of practice? Should I play at fewer tables until I improve my note taking? I am somewhat left confused now that you all have more or less convinced me that taking most of the notes during sessions is the way to go.
      I think that 4 tables should be the minimum for someone who knows the basics and feel comfortable in the limit he plays. Cause don't forget that you have to put some volume as well. But this is just my opinion :) . I completely believe that if you practice a bit you ll see that it s getting way too easier to take notes. I had the same problem in the beginning so I know what you mean. Also don't be stressful and try to catch all the possible notes, cause this is impossible. Start with those that are very obvious and you can recognize easily like if you see someone going AI with junk for example or if you see calling ATWD with 3d pair in a high cards board etc.. And finally sth I like to do .. you mentioned that some times you miss important hands while typing notes. So what I do is if there is a lot of action that moment and I can't type the information I just open the preview window and leave it until I have time. Then I replay the hand (during play) and take easily the notes I want
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