[NL2-NL10] Another mid pair ZZZZZZZ

    • Greedyfly
      Greedyfly
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.04.2010 Posts: 213
      Another pair I feel I have to fold. Call fold. Shit all night down 2.5BI


      Hand converted with online PokerStrategy.com hand converter:

      Play hand

      $0.01/$0.02 No-Limit Hold'em (8 handed)

      Known players:
      MP1:
      $2.21
      MP2:
      $0.81
      MP3 (Hero):
      $2.21
      CO:
      $2.00
      BU:
      $0.65
      SB:
      $2.06
      BB:
      $2.31
      UTG2:
      $3.02


      Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 9, 9.
      3 folds, Hero raises to $0.08, 2 folds, SB raises to $0.24, BB calls $0.22, Hero calls $0.16.

      Flop: ($0.72) A, 7, 8 (3 players)
      SB bets $0.44, BB folds, Hero folds, SB gets uncalled bet back.

      Final Pot: $0.72.
  • 8 replies
    • Wurble
      Wurble
      Silver
      Joined: 04.04.2009 Posts: 456
      Fold pre unless you have reads that villain is 3betting and calling 100bbs with air in which case ship it.
    • Greedyfly
      Greedyfly
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.04.2010 Posts: 213
      He was, but usually any Ace. Means again I've wasted several BB for absolutely no value.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello Greedyfly,

      Nah, seems to be fine, we are getting preflop like 15:1 odds so just going for set mining is fine.

      Best Regards.
    • Greedyfly
      Greedyfly
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.04.2010 Posts: 213
      Veriz, can you clarify the 15:1 preflop value? Surely that's not the chance of hitting the set? Or pot odds?

      I am confused. Apologies.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by Greedyfly
      Veriz, can you clarify the 15:1 preflop value? Surely that's not the chance of hitting the set? Or pot odds?

      I am confused. Apologies.
      Odds, for 3bet pot we can use Call15 rule. As the same as for set mining Call20 rule.
    • Wurble
      Wurble
      Silver
      Joined: 04.04.2009 Posts: 456
      Originally posted by veriz
      Originally posted by Greedyfly
      Veriz, can you clarify the 15:1 preflop value? Surely that's not the chance of hitting the set? Or pot odds?

      I am confused. Apologies.
      Odds, for 3bet pot we can use Call15 rule. As the same as for set mining Call20 rule.
      Hey Veriz, not sure I get this...

      Using call15 rule in 3bet pots for set mining at nl2 is spew imo... Firstly, if a player has a tight enough 3bet range to potentially make this profitable we must know that they're not ever getting away from their over pair. We are going to lose the pot to a c-bet when we are ahead of AK\AQ often as well..

      Most people at nl2 have a much wider 3bet range than QQ+ & AK so they're not necessarily stacking off with their Ax hands or whatever when you hit your set so you don't realise your equity anywhere near enough... We need to get a full stack on average every other time we hit a set to make this profitable.

      If you know that their 3bet range is wide enough then why not get it in pre with medium pairs? That way they can't get away when you've got the money in as a 70% favourite or whatever?

      I can only see the call15 rule being profitable if we know for an absolute certainty that villain has QQ+ and will stack off post flop every single time.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Using call15 rule in 3bet pots for set mining at nl2 is spew imo... Firstly, if a player has a tight enough 3bet range to potentially make this profitable we must know that they're not ever getting away from their over pair. We are going to lose the pot to a c-bet when we are ahead of AK\AQ often as well..

      Huh? Spew? He has a very strong range = he pays us most often. I don't really see how it can be spew? So if we loose vs the CB? We are planning to play mainly for the hit and that's it.

      Most people at nl2 have a much wider 3bet range than QQ+ & AK so they're not necessarily stacking off with their Ax hands or whatever when you hit your set so you don't realise your equity anywhere near enough... We need to get a full stack on average every other time we hit a set to make this profitable.

      That's really wow, so far as I have played during my coachings I never seen people having wider range in NL2 of the 3bet than on higher limits. That's totally not true, they mainly have value-range.

      If you know that their 3bet range is wide enough then why not get it in pre with medium pairs? That way they can't get away when you've got the money in as a 70% favourite or whatever?

      Wow, and you are talking about spew with the Call? Getting it in here would be a big spew!

      I can only see the call15 rule being profitable if we know for an absolute certainty that villain has QQ+ and will stack off post flop every single time.

      Wrong! Cause he could also hit even with his overcards or try to bluff you off postflop -> as you said he is a maniac 3betting very wide and that's what all players do on NL2 (yours words).
    • Greedyfly
      Greedyfly
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.04.2010 Posts: 213

      That's really wow, so far as I have played during my coachings I never seen people having wider range in NL2 of the 3bet than on higher limits. That's totally not true, they mainly have value-range.

      I have seen your coachings and I have to say I agree.

      That said when I put it into practice I have to agree with Wurble too. I see heaps of idiots shoving any picture card/rag combo...Often against me. And often winning. I don't know what to do when this regularly occurs.